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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  MOONTOUCHED from PLAY.NET (Born Cynical)
On  Dec 6, 2001 at 07:27
Subject  Re: New Races (996)
<<I vote for Elpazi>>

Would it be considered bad form to say "Only a Prydaen would want to look and smell like a Wookiee?"

Mute


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  WARCHILDE from PLAY.NET (Sin Is In)
On  Dec 6, 2001 at 08:23
Subject  Re: New Races (997)
by someone that turns into part wookie when the moon is just right? Not really. (hehe)

~T


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  TOTHA from PLAY.NET
On  Dec 7, 2001 at 03:42
Subject  Re: New Races (998)
"Would it be considered bad form to say "Only a Prydaen would want to look and smell like a Wookiee?""

Remember its not wise to upset a wookie...


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DR-CHISONI from PLAY.NET (Prydaen Guardian)
On  Dec 7, 2001 at 14:53
Subject  Re: New Races (999)
Wookies? Wrong Universe peoples. Now behave, and stop tweaking each other like that, eh?

Chisoni


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  WARCHILDE from PLAY.NET (Sin Is In)
On  Dec 7, 2001 at 14:54
Subject  Re: New Races (1000)
He started it.

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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  MOONTOUCHED from PLAY.NET (Born Cynical)
On  Dec 7, 2001 at 15:02
Subject  Re: New Races (1001)
<<Wookies? Wrong Universe peoples. Now behave, and stop tweaking each other like that, eh?>>

Pfft, you can draw too many parallels for them ALL to be coincidence. Besides, Veyl is known for his good taste.

<<He started it.>>

LOL, I did not. I merely umm. Okay, so maybe I did! What of it?

Mute


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  WARCHILDE from PLAY.NET (Sin Is In)
On  Dec 7, 2001 at 15:19
Subject  Re: New Races (1002)
<<LOL, I did not. I merely umm. Okay, so maybe I did! What of it?>>

hehe


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DRAGOONSEAL from PLAY.NET (Horse: Its Whats for Dinner!)
On  Dec 7, 2001 at 16:32
Subject  Re: New Races (1003)
"He started it."

ROFLMAO.

Thats good.. I like that


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  RESiSTANCE_Bomb from Microsoft Gaming Zone (Jaebom)
On  Dec 7, 2001 at 17:16
Subject  Re: New Races (1004)
that was beautiful..."he started it"...hehe...i wish i could take credit for that one

as for the wrong universe thing...sir robyn brings to mind images of middle-aged english men skipping about with coconuts in their hands...and smelly cat? gimme a break. we just can't call 'em wookies and we're in the clear

Jaebom --i still wish i could take credit for the "he started it" remark. that was classic


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  WARCHILDE from PLAY.NET (Sin Is In)
On  Dec 7, 2001 at 17:26
Subject  Re: New Races (1005)
<<i still wish i could take credit for the "he started it" remark. that was classic>>

HEHE

~Ternith


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DEROVIUS from PLAY.NET
On  Dec 9, 2001 at 14:16
Subject  Race, In General, my input. (1006)
For what I've seen, Prydaen's Guru or GM or whatever they title themselves as, has be quite generous with the Cats. Now, hows about ya get going with the lil people races. I think Gnomes have it the worst off cause all they can do is kick yer shins. (Don't quote me though.) Secondly, why must all s'kra have slender tails? why must all elves have the same sized pointed ears? Why not has a male s'kra with a thick, strong tail, and a female with the slender tail?*dodges feminists*. And elves, I would think an elf womans ears would be more petite than a males... Finally, ya should make it so us S'kra can join the various clans as a post title, I think someone said this before though. Thanks for reading.

                 Derocius, S'kra Ranga


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  KASRRISS from PLAY.NET (~*Worshipper of Eu*~)
On  Dec 9, 2001 at 16:27
Subject  Re: Race, In General, my input. (1007)
>Secondly, why must all s'kra have slender tails? why must all elves have the same sized pointed ears? Why not has a male s'kra with a thick, strong tail, and a female with the slender tail?*dodges feminists*.

Hmmm... I had this crazy idea that S'Kra females were larger than S'Kra males <winks>... its probably pretty likely that I'm wrong, athough I seem to remeber one of the GM's saying, when the S'Kra racial pic came out, that the bigger S'Kra was a female. (Anyone else remember anything about that?)

>And elves, I would think an elf womans ears would be more petite than a males...

<winks> I dunno... some of those male elves have been described as being very effeminate...

Marvelous ideas, and I think Damissak or one of the GMs hinted at someday being able to specify the size of features like tails. But, and bear with me for a moment, what if GM Ellerina stated that Female S'Kra were bigger and stronger than male S'Kra? Somehow I doubt you would like being pidgeonholed into having a delicate tail and slender ankles. That would probably go against your RP as a tough S'Kra ranga. (just guessing, who knows.) You would probably like to be able to stick with your RP and your image of your S'Kra, that he's strong and thick-tailed for a male. So yes, it would be a great thing to have a little diversity with our features... but lets not pidgeonhole everyone without a care to how they RP their character. <grins>

        *Slash & Snap*


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DARIONH from PLAY.NET (Toren, Dark Protector)
On  Dec 9, 2001 at 16:29
Subject  Re: Race, In General, my input. (1008)
S'kra females are larger than males, yes. (But don't ever use that picture as a reference for anything)

  Toren Sunreign-Jade-Stone, S'kra Gopher


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DEROVIUS from PLAY.NET
On  Dec 9, 2001 at 21:03
Subject  Re: Race, In General, my input. (1009)
Ya, I know S'kra females are bigger than males, but that has nothing to do with tail size. Bigger can be in the waist, and height, while males are slightly stockier and more muscle. *Grins* And who says I dun wanna be smaller then a woman. *winks* I shall say no more.

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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  WARCHILDE from PLAY.NET (Sin Is In)
On  Dec 10, 2001 at 08:56
Subject  Re: Race, In General, my input. (1010)
<<For what I've seen, Prydaen's Guru or GM or whatever they title themselves as, has be quite generous with the Cats.>>

I will not flame. I will not flame. I will not flame.

Our Prydaen Racial Champions rule. 'nuff said.

~Ternith


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  ZADO from PLAY.NET (S Kra Screamer)
On  Dec 10, 2001 at 23:59
Subject  Re: Race, In General, my input. (1011)
My viewpoint: I personally think that every race with the exception of humans and elves should stick to their own race, especially Prydaens and S'Kra; even the human/elf couple seems like a bad idea to me, since the human will be dead long-before the elven partner even begins to grow physically old. A Dwarf and elf, human, or Gor'Tog (or any given combination of that sorts) doesn't occur to me as being compatible at all, but it can and has happened. After all, the GM's make the game, but the players are the ones who control their characters.

As far as the interracial offspring thing goes, the concept that a birthing beween a human and elf creates child of either human or elven race just sounds like GM laziness in creativity to me. Of course, I can see where it makes partial since, since players aren't able to select mixed-raced characters in the character manager (should they want to roleplay the child of a couple), but that's not enough of a reason to me. It seems as if one parent serves as a virus to produce his/her offspring and the other parent is a host of sorts to in which he/she assists in producing the host's offspring, instead of a child with mixed traits from both races (which I think is how it should go). But that's just my theory.


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DEROVIUS from PLAY.NET
On  Dec 11, 2001 at 13:49
Subject  Re: Race, In General, my input. (1012)
If they did that, then there would be some really ugly Tog/Gnome people.. *shivers* I still cannot figure out how the hell they can consemate....

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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  NORTHWIND from PLAY.NET (Mykk)
On  Dec 11, 2001 at 14:21
Subject  Re: Race, In General, my input. (1013)
<<If they did that, then there would be some really ugly Tog/Gnome people.. *shivers* I still cannot figure out how the hell they can consemate....>>

I think I've got part of it figured out, but it has to do with a rumour I heard about male Gor'Togs. Which is really funny because Halfling men... nevermind.


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DR-CHISONI from PLAY.NET (Prydaen Guardian)
On  Dec 12, 2001 at 17:42
Subject  Re: Race, In General, my input. (1014)
>> I will not flame. I will not flame. I will not flame.

>> Our Prydaen Racial Champions rule. 'nuff said.

Hee!

>> For what I've seen, Prydaen's Guru or GM or whatever they title themselves as, has be quite generous with the Cats.

Is that "has to be" or "have/has been"? Just curious. (No, I'm not knocking typos, just wanting to know the correct meaning.)

<wanders back to a vacation>

Chisoni


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DEROVIUS from PLAY.NET
On  Dec 12, 2001 at 23:04
Subject  Re: Race, In General, my input. (1015)
Has been, sorry, I type to fast for my own good.

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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DR-CHISONI from PLAY.NET (Prydaen Guardian)
On  Dec 14, 2001 at 14:22
Subject  Re: Race, In General, my input. (1016)
>> Has been, sorry, I type to fast for my own good.

Okay! :) Just checking.

Chisoni


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DANTASE from PLAY.NET (Ecoles)
On  Dec 14, 2001 at 18:02
Subject  Re: Race, In General, my input. (1017)
Get back on vacation Chisoni. That's an order....

Geez, ya think when they say they going away to rest, they'll actually do it....

***Thwap***

Ecoles


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DANFORDS2 from PLAY.NET (Opieus Tuer)
On  Dec 14, 2001 at 18:35
Subject  Talking (1018)
Two things: If a human set to common is in a room with a fellow human set to gamgweth does the human set to common understand the gamgweth?

Will it ever be possible to learn languages that aren't your race's? I think bards would like the beauty of the Elven language.

Thanks.

Opieus Tuer ~ Human Warrior Mage


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DR-CHISONI from PLAY.NET (Prydaen Guardian)
On  Dec 14, 2001 at 19:02
Subject  Re: Race, In General, my input. (1019)
>> Get back on vacation Chisoni. That's an order....

But but but, I was bored! <whine> :P

Okay okay, I'll try and actually vacation on my vacation, but I'm not making any promises.

Chisoni


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DANTASE from PLAY.NET (Ecoles)
On  Dec 14, 2001 at 19:14
Subject  Re: Race, In General, my input. (1020)
Well Chisone, FFX comes out in 4 days.... We'll not be seeing you much then, so I guess anything we gets right now is good stuff.

Ecoles


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  ZADO from PLAY.NET (S Kra Screamer)
On  Dec 14, 2001 at 21:00
Subject  Re: Talking (1021)
<<If a human set to common is in a room with a fellow human set to gamgweth does the human set to common understand the gamgweth??>>

Yes, the setting is only to determine what language the character will be speaking.


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  RESiSTANCE_Bomb from Microsoft Gaming Zone (Jaebom)
On  Dec 14, 2001 at 23:45
Subject  Re: Talking (1022)
bards have been wanting EVERY language!!! the ability to learn them only, not simply have them by the good grace of silvyrfrost (her only grace is in the way she walks...also the only reason the men in the guild listen to her...and half the women)

Jaebom --i'd personally go for elothean first, i know this cute little empath...


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  MAXWELLSDEMON from PLAY.NET (Delgareth)
On  Dec 15, 2001 at 08:19
Subject  Re: Talking (1023)
What about.... for every 100 ranks of scholarship you get to learn an additional language? Except for Bards, who could learn an additional one every 50 ranks of scholarship?

Delg
   (not a bard, but knows a few)


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  RESiSTANCE_Bomb from Microsoft Gaming Zone (Jaebom)
On  Dec 16, 2001 at 01:06
Subject  Re: Talking (1025)
you are a friggin genious...and i'm o nly 7 ranks off a second language by that system

Jaebom --s'kra with dreams of speaking ilithi, elothean, and prydaen so he's not left in the dark all the time


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  MOONTOUCHED from PLAY.NET (Official Board Monkey)
On  Dec 16, 2001 at 09:35
Subject  Re: Talking (1026)
Well, could always propose a system like this:

Every 100 ranks for Lore primary Guilds.

Every 150 ranks for Lore secondary and tertiary Guilds.

Considering the only people I know with 150+ ranks of scholarship belonging to secondary/tert Guilds are in/around/over 70th circle, seems pretty reasonable to me.

Loq


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DMYSUS from PLAY.NET
On  Dec 16, 2001 at 09:47
Subject  Re: Talking (1027)
Honestly, just about any guild can claim some right to learning a language earlier. Traders are exposed to more languages in their travels and dealing with clerks of many areas. MoonMages are scholors and with no combat requirments have the time to put into such studies. Clerics on missionary trips need to know the local language....ect, ect.

I think the scholorship level for everyone should be around 50 or less....but that the process of learning the language be a long one, something like learning an intrument for non-bards. There would be alot of sputtering and such for awhile.

Now, here's what I think would be cool. Choose one race that can teach others languages. And that of course would be Gnomes. We Gnomes are the smartest (alteast the best int bonus) and we have no language of our own...we share the Kaldar's.

Here's the process... A Gnome learns a language (or all the languages) from either book studies or npc. They then can teach others. But, there's a limit to it. If the Gnome is teaching a Dwarf then the Gnome must switch to speaking the Dwarvan language and then teach the new language. Any Dwarf then can join the class. But only Dwarfs. It's alot easier to learn a language when its tought to you from your native tongue and not your second.

That's just my idea.

Brother Qaton.


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DRAGOONSEAL from PLAY.NET (Horse: Its Whats for Dinner!)
On  Dec 16, 2001 at 10:17
Subject  Re: Talking (1028)
>I think the scholorship level for everyone should be around 50 or less....but that the process of learning the language be a long one, something like learning an intrument for non-bards. There would be alot of sputtering and such for awhile.

>Now, here's what I think would be cool. Choose one race that can teach others languages. And that of course would be Gnomes. We Gnomes are the smartest (alteast the best int bonus) and we have no language of our own...we share the Kaldar's.

>Here's the process... A Gnome learns a language (or all the languages) from either book studies or npc. They then can teach others. But, there's a limit to it. If the Gnome is teaching a Dwarf then the Gnome must switch to speaking the Dwarvan language and then teach the new language. Any Dwarf then can join the class. But only Dwarfs. It's alot easier to learn a language when its tought to you from your native tongue and not your second.

Yeah! Everyone can learn all the languages!!!11

No...

Dragonseal


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DARIONH from PLAY.NET (Toren, Dark Protector)
On  Dec 16, 2001 at 10:26
Subject  Re: Talking (1029)
The req should be at least 100. 50's just a mere practioner of scholarship, and can be achieved really fast. Lore skills at 100 or more are actually mildly impressive.

  However, I just think the person that speaks the racial language would teach it, and they should have to have 100 teaching and 100 scholar or something like that.

  That way higher up people could speak a second language, but you wouldn't see too many with more than 3 languages known. (I've seen GMNPCs know multiple languages so it is possible from a system point of view).

  Toren Sunreign-Jade-Stone, S'kra Gopher who'd really like to learn Prydaenese and whose mate would probably like learning S'kra Mur.


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  MAXWELLSDEMON from PLAY.NET (Delgareth)
On  Dec 16, 2001 at 10:39
Subject  Re: Talking (1030)
<<That way higher up people could speak a second language, but you wouldn't see too many with more than 3 languages known.>>

Problem is, it's not that difficult to learn a third or fourth... or fifth language. It's the second that's the tricky one.

Now, level of fluency could be an issue. Wondering if you had a Human speaking Haakish...

  >
  Delgareth says in accented Haakish, "Welcome, friend."


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  RESiSTANCE_Bomb from Microsoft Gaming Zone (Jaebom)
On  Dec 16, 2001 at 14:58
Subject  Re: Talking (1031)
only problem with giving the ability to gnomes only: almost no bardic gnomes. the problem here is that bards would lynch every gnome they came across just to spite the person who put this into effect because bards have been wanting the ability to learn and teach languages for years. i really don't wanna see anything like that given to a race that tends to be mostly empaths, moonies, and the odd barbarian, paladin, or cleric. you could argue that moonies and empaths are good teachers, but bards are supposed to be the best (despite the fact that the GMs ignored what they stated about our guild and seem to have made moonies better at all things scholarly when they aren't even lore primary!!) if ya ask me, i'd say give bonuses to learning to certain guilds like traders, moonies, and a bigger one to bards, and a huge bonus to teaching it to bards. this has nothin to do with me bein a bard, it just makes sence to me to give the supposedly best storytellers and teachers who're supposed to be very good scholars and who are very adept at things of a verbal and musical nature to be able to learn and teach languages with an ease that others would not possess. i'm not saying others should not possess these skills, just that bards would be better at it, sorta like a mage is better with magic than a bard, and a ranger is better at survival than a paladin. everyone's got that which they're best at, i think language learning and teaching would fall into what bards are best at.

Jaebom --i still wanna learn elothean damnit!!


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DMYSUS from PLAY.NET
On  Dec 16, 2001 at 16:45
Subject  Re: Talking (1032)
OK, how about this... since Bards are suppose to be the record keepers/story tellers let them have the ability to understand multiple languages....not speak them. I know I can read and listen to alot more languages than I can actually speak. This would let them fullfill their roles as record keepers of cultures and not overdue it.

This could also spur some to speak their native tongue more often if there could be a translator around. I know an Elothean bard that wouldn't mind knowing what all the little Gnomes around her are talking about sometimes.


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  SCYTHA from PLAY.NET (Kitrinx)
On  Dec 16, 2001 at 16:57
Subject  Re: Talking (1033)
> you could argue that moonies and empaths are good teachers, but bards are supposed to be the best

Actualy, they claim that empaths are supposed to be the best teachers in elanthia. We have the highest teaching req and are lore primary. Technicaly, we're supposed to be the ultimate scholars, though we really should be considered a magic prime guild. Personaly, I'd be really ticked to see anyone who wasn't prydaen speaking and understanding prydaenese perfectly. I'd rather see anyone who wasn't natively that race only be able to get a poor grasp of the language at best. Like hear the words, but mangled up a bit and thus hard to read and understand.

-Kitrinx


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  RESiSTANCE_Bomb from Microsoft Gaming Zone (Jaebom)
On  Dec 16, 2001 at 17:50
Subject  Re: Talking (1034)
where's it said that empaths are the best teachers? seems i missed that somewhere. though i've heard it many times that bards are supposed to fit that bill. as for the jumbling of languages to non-native speakers, i know many people who have learned 4 or 5 other languages fluently or nearly so, and i know there are others out there who know more than that. i see nothing wrong with learning a couple extra languages fluently, or at least being able to understand with few problems, even if your speaking of the language isn't the greatest.

Jaebom --i will not settle for mediocre understanding if i can learn a language, IC or OOC


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  MOONTOUCHED from PLAY.NET (Official Board Monkey)
On  Dec 16, 2001 at 18:03
Subject  Re: Talking (1035)
Ooookay.

Once again. 100 ranks of scholarship to learn a new language for Lore primary Guilds (Empaths, Bards, Traders). 150 ranks for secondary & tertiary guilds.

Your Charisma modifies how well you SPEAK foreign languages. Intelligence determines how well you understand (hear) foreign languages.

Toren's idea for the ability to teach the language is a good one. The teacher has to have 100 teaching and scholarship, speak the language as a native and the class takes about an hour (non-stop). A non-native teacher needs 150 teaching and scholarship.

Loq


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  BLUR from PLAY.NET (Refugee from the Unknown Lands)
On  Dec 16, 2001 at 18:14
Subject  Re: Talking (1036)
How about we have something in the game which is specific to the individual races, instead?Something like.... languages. Personally, I do not want people to be learning specific languages other than the languages they are born with.

Michael, aka Humm "Proud Ears" Breaux


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  RESiSTANCE_Bomb from Microsoft Gaming Zone (Jaebom)
On  Dec 16, 2001 at 18:32
Subject  Re: Talking (1037)
yet you don't object to a common language? obviously you've never been the only s'kra in a room fulla elvens and prydaen all speaking their own languages between each other. it's honestly quite annoying, especially for us bards who aren't elven or prydaen...roughly a third of the guild is elven and another third is prydaen. and what about when you're married to someone of another race and they're in a conversation with people of their own race? the sheer annoyance of these things is honestly unessessary. there's nothing IC to prevent someone from speaking another language other than the lack of game mechanics, and maybe severe difficulty pronouncing the words (i'd assume s'kra would be difficult for other races to speak, as would rakash and prydaen due to anatomical reasons). i, as well as MANY other people, have wanted the ability to learn new languages for years, and game mechanics already support speaking more than just 2 languages, as several GMPCs have demonstrated in the past. there are those who wish to roleplay being raised by another race, and the inability to learn the language of that race is a serious hobble to their roleplaying.

Jaebom --why does it seem only the prydaen object to this? are they that worried that we'll learn what they're saying about us?


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  HANTMAN from PLAY.NET
On  Dec 16, 2001 at 18:35
Subject  Re: Talking (1038)
>almost no bardic gnomes

Gnome bards are the best...


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  SCYTHA from PLAY.NET (Kitrinx)
On  Dec 16, 2001 at 19:21
Subject  Re: Talking (1039)
>there's nothing IC to prevent someone from speaking another language other than the lack of game mechanics

Isn't that the very reason the languages exist, rather than having only common? To make the races more distinct?

I know that prydaens can purr and meow, skra can hiss, and no one else can do so as well. I can see it quite reasonable that no one could speak prydaen as well as a prydaen. Other races have differences too, some people IRL can speak 5 or so languages, true, but they usualy learn them at young ages, and they're not different species racial languages. It doesn't seem unreasonable to me to have racial languages maintained as a feature of being that particular race, rather than having every bard waltz in and be able to understand what you say when you are only talking to your kin.

-Kitrinx


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DRAGOONSEAL from PLAY.NET (Horse: Its Whats for Dinner!)
On  Dec 16, 2001 at 19:36
Subject  Re: Talking (1040)
>Jaebom --why does it seem only the prydaen object to this? are they that worried that we'll learn what they're saying about us?

Yes, that is the general idea isnt it? Whats the bloody point of having the lauguages if everyone can just learn them all?

Dragoonseal, who just might be saying bad things about you, right to your face, but you'd never know, mwuahahahahah *cough hack cough*

P.S. There are plenty of things we would wish to keep private and not just 'ave some non-Prydaen sit listening to our meetings and such.


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DARIONH from PLAY.NET (Toren, Dark Protector)
On  Dec 16, 2001 at 19:47
Subject  Re: Talking (1041)
>Yes, that is the general idea isnt it? Whats the bloody point of having the lauguages if everyone can just learn them all?<

  Hence a scholarship requirement, meaning nobody will have more than 1 or 2 extras. Hefty, like 100-150 each. I need some motivation to learn lore skills, they're dumb currently.

>Dragoonseal, who just might be saying bad things about you, right to your face, but you'd never know, mwuahahahahah *cough hack cough*<

  After Toren being a mate to a Prydaen for years, as well as having been around said Prydaen for 9 Elanthia years (and being stuck in many situations where only Prydaenese was being spoken), it would make some sense that I'd have picked up some Prydaenese. Just as she should know some S'kra Mur. In fact, learning other languages has been said by GMs multiple times that it's something they're thinking of doing. (I don't think they've ever committed, they're too smart for that *chuckles*)

>P.S. There are plenty of things we would wish to keep private and not just 'ave some non-Prydaen sit listening to our meetings and such.<

  So go someplace truly private or whisper. Isn't very hard. I don't have sympathy for people not wanting others to be able to learn languages (which has been asked for since languages came out) because they "don't want to have some non-<insertracehere> listening to their meeting". I've held private meetings on things before, I don't need a special language nobody but my group knows to do it. I can see maybe having issues speaking any language but your racial one, but learning how to listen to one is a lot easier.

  Toren Sunreign-Jade-Stone, S'kra Gopher


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  MOONTOUCHED from PLAY.NET (Official Board Monkey)
On  Dec 16, 2001 at 19:49
Subject  Re: Talking (1042)
<<Whats the bloody point of having the lauguages if everyone can just learn them all?>>

The _most_ scholarly person in DR right now would be able to speak six languages, including Common and their native tongue. Six out of twelve. To be frank, I don't think that's bad. It's hardly ALL, although it is a lot.

Loq


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  RESiSTANCE_Bomb from Microsoft Gaming Zone (Jaebom)
On  Dec 16, 2001 at 19:58
Subject  Re: Talking (1043)
if you're THAT worried about non prydaen understanding, why don't you just get 'em all in a group and whisper to 'em? that's what most sane people do when they wanna keep something private, but then you *are* prydaen, we'd just ask too many questions about what you're saying, after all, we are the inferior, aren't we?

Jaebom --i don't tolerate gross ignorance very well


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DRAGOONSEAL from PLAY.NET (Horse: Its Whats for Dinner!)
On  Dec 16, 2001 at 20:09
Subject  Re: Talking (1044)
>I don't have sympathy for people not wanting others to be able to learn languages (which has been asked for since languages came out)

And I don't have sympathy for people wanting others to be able to learn the languages. If it was something for you to have, it would of come out with the lauguages.

>because they "don't want to have some non-<insertracehere> listening to their meeting

That was one example, I could go on and on with more (but won't). Using your logic, then the only reason at all for anyone to learn another language would be for married couples to be able ta learn their mates language (something I've always been for actually), otherwise there wouldnt be a need for it (and isnt).

>The _most_ scholarly person in DR right now would be able to speak six languages, including Common and their native tongue. Six out of twelve. To be frank, I don't think that's bad. It's hardly ALL, although it is a lot.

I see that as too much... learning 2 others would be the most I could see one learning.

Dragoonseal


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DRAGOONSEAL from PLAY.NET (Horse: Its Whats for Dinner!)
On  Dec 16, 2001 at 20:13
Subject  Re: Talking (1045)
>if you're THAT worried about non prydaen understanding, why don't you just get 'em all in a group and whisper to 'em? that's what most sane people do when they wanna keep something private

I was just using us as an example, but for one, that example is a great example of bad RPing.

>but then you *are* prydaen, we'd just ask too many questions about what you're saying, after all, we are the inferior, aren't we?

Yes, something I agree with you on there, sense you asked.

Dragoonseal


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DANFORDS2 from PLAY.NET (Opieus Tuer)
On  Dec 16, 2001 at 20:38
Subject  Re: Talking (1046)
<<learning 2 others would be the most I could see one learning>>

What? I'm 16 and I can understand more than English and my main foreign language. I know French pretty well, a little German, a little Spanish, and a little Latin. And that's just speaking. I can hear just about any Romance language and get the gist, and reading a Romance language I can almost get it word for word. 2 is just riddiculous. 6 of the 12 languages isn't that much, and that is the best in the game. If you're saying something that private, whisper. There are people of your race, I'm sure, who you don't want to hear your group conversations. As for race meetings, don't let other races attend.

Opieus Tuer ~ Human Warrior Mage


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DANFORDS2 from PLAY.NET (Opieus Tuer)
On  Dec 16, 2001 at 20:39
Subject  Re: Talking (1047)
I just remembered, I started this thread! lol Oh well.

Opieus Tuer ~ Human Warrior Mage


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  MAXWELLSDEMON from PLAY.NET (Delgareth)
On  Dec 16, 2001 at 20:46
Subject  Re: Talking (1048)
<<learning 2 others would be the most I could see one learning.>>

Oh, you funny American. :P You think foreign languages are so tough because of that word "foreign" in there.

Believe me, after the first one they get easier, not harder.

Delg's player


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DRAGOONSEAL from PLAY.NET (Horse: Its Whats for Dinner!)
On  Dec 16, 2001 at 21:00
Subject  Re: Talking (1049)
>Oh, you funny American. :P You think foreign languages are so tough because of that word "foreign" in there.

What da 'ell are you freaky people talking about? I'm talking about DR here everyone. Learning 8 lauguages is something that damn well shouldn't happen in DR, there are barely even that many lauguages all together in DR. I was specifically wasn't mentioning anything about RL because if it was that easy, everyone in DR would know just about all the languages there are in DR. Knowing 4 lauguages in DR is damn plenty (too much) in my opinion, probably not yers though.

Dragoonseal


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DARIONH from PLAY.NET (Toren, Dark Protector)
On  Dec 16, 2001 at 21:19
Subject  Re: Talking (1050)
Dragoonseal, don't split my sentences apart when you respond so you can pick at something that wasn't my point :) The correct thing to quote was "I don't have sympathy for people not wanting others to be able to learn languages (which has been asked for since languages came out) because they "don't want to have some non-<insertracehere> listening to their meeting" which means I think your example was crap, not that I hate you for thinking people shouldn't learn other languages. Thank you in advance for complying.

>That was one example, I could go on and on with more (but won't). Using your logic, then the only reason at all for anyone to learn another language would be for married couples to be able ta learn their mates language (something I've always been for actually), otherwise there wouldnt be a need for it (and isnt).<

  I shall provide another example. I spy on people. What if they speak a different language? I'm basically screwed cause there's no IC way to tell what they're saying. I can't even get out my pocket-Haakish dictionary and translate. I can get just as many examples of reasons why languages would be good and useful as you could in another direction.

  Toren Sunreign-Jade-Stone, S'kra Gopher


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  KASRRISS from PLAY.NET (~*Worshipper of Eu*~)
On  Dec 16, 2001 at 21:20
Subject  Re: Talking (1051)
>Oh, you funny American. :P You think foreign languages are so tough because of that word "foreign" in there.

Ah, but those are all languages humans speak. Who can say how easy it would be to speak the language of another species? Since we humans dont happen to have any members of other species as 'intelligent' as ourselves hanging around good ol earth, its hard to say whether or not a human could be expected to pick up the language of a S'Kra as easily as an english speaker picks up say, french.

Just something to consider. I'm not really big on a bunch of soft mouthed furless mangling the Prydaen language, or mangling the S'Kra language either, but its not gonna get my pants in a knot if they do figure it out.

       *Snap & Slash*


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  GRIM45 from PLAY.NET (Yes, I AM the Mouthwash!)
On  Dec 16, 2001 at 21:23
Subject  Re: Talking (1052)
>>>Ah, but those are all languages humans speak. Who can say how easy it would be to speak the language of another species? Since we humans dont happen to have any members of other species as 'intelligent' as ourselves hanging around good ol earth, its hard to say whether or not a human could be expected to pick up the language of a S'Kra as easily as an english speaker picks up say, french.

Not to mention, when most people learn another language, it's usually in the same family as the language they learned. Such as Spanish and French both grew out of Latin. Unless someone learns something like Russian and Spanish.

-Targon


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  TURNIPKID from PLAY.NET (~The Drunken Star)
On  Dec 16, 2001 at 21:23
Subject  Re: Talking (1053)
>>What da 'ell are you freaky people talking about? I'm talking about DR here everyone. Learning 8 lauguages is something that damn well shouldn't happen in DR, there are barely even that many lauguages all together in DR. I was specifically wasn't mentioning anything about RL because if it was that easy, everyone in DR would know just about all the languages there are in DR. Knowing 4 lauguages in DR is damn plenty (too much) in my opinion, probably not yers though.

You act as though getting 400 ranks in scholarship is such an easy task. (That is if we are going on the assumption that 100 ranks=1 langauge) Heck I'm a 30+ circle Cleric and I would only be eligible to learn one additional langauge and Clerics have some of the highest Schol reqs in the game. Right now scholarship is basically a useless skill. I would love to see a langauge system based on it. And why couldn't a fairly studious and intelligent person learn to speak another langauge? I mean RPwise there are enough books in the realms dealing with langauge and with the huge extended families in the realms you don't think at some point SOMEONE would have taught their kid to speak another langauge? It makes perfect RP sense for a person to be able to learn a tounge other than their own and can only serve to enhance RP. And if you think people learning too many langauges is a problem, I dare you to find one person under 80th circle who has over 400 scholarship. And I dare you even further to find one who is not an Empath or a Cleric.

>>And I don't have sympathy for people wanting others to be able to learn the languages. If it was something for you to have, it would of come out with the lauguages.

Don't make me go on about how many systems have been update since they came out. Even system that we were told would "never" change.

SC and player of


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  SCYTHA from PLAY.NET (Kitrinx)
On  Dec 16, 2001 at 21:29
Subject  Re: Talking (1054)
Try learning japanese, korean, hebrew, arabic(whatever the right name for it is), swahili, and english well enough to speak/listen to them all. That's more like what DR languages are. DR races are far more seperate than human cultures are, and many have different physical charactaristics that would probobly let them make different sounds. Just because it annoys you that you can't be part of a clique doesn't mean that the people who are proud of their race and like to speak aloud to only their race members should have that feature stolen from them. If they wanted to talk to all races, then they'd be speaking in common. Bonding, as mentioned before, is the only time I could see that kind of exception being appropriate. I think it would be better to add new languages that NO race started with, in other words, languages that were only obtainable by learning them from books, scrolls, quests, npcs, etc.

-Kitrinx


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DARIONH from PLAY.NET (Toren, Dark Protector)
On  Dec 16, 2001 at 21:31
Subject  Re: Talking (1055)
>Just because it annoys you that you can't be part of a clique doesn't mean that the people who are proud of their race and like to speak aloud to only their race members should have that feature stolen from them.<

  So in other words, just cause your reasons are OOC you want to keep it? :)

  Toren


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  TURNIPKID from PLAY.NET (~The Drunken Star)
On  Dec 16, 2001 at 21:34
Subject  Re: Talking (1056)
>>Ah, but those are all languages humans speak. Who can say how easy it would be to speak the language of another species? Since we humans dont happen to have any members of other species as 'intelligent' as ourselves hanging around good ol earth, its hard to say whether or not a human could be expected to pick up the language of a S'Kra as easily as an english speaker picks up say, french.

There is almost no similarity between English and Chinese, either written or spoken. Yet with enough effort I can learn how to read and write in Chinese if I really wanted to. Think of that 100 ranks of scholarship as putting in the effort.

If there were no similarities between the langauges at all, then Common couldn't exist as there would be no base of translation. In fact if you really think about it, someone would have HAD to learn Rakash, Gorbesh, and Pyrdaenese in order to teach the forgein races Common. The universal use of Common would make learning langauges even easier.

SC and player of


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DRAGOONSEAL from PLAY.NET (Horse: Its Whats for Dinner!)
On  Dec 16, 2001 at 21:41
Subject  Re: Talking (1057)
>Dragoonseal, don't split my sentences apart when you respond so you can pick at something that wasn't my point :) The correct thing to quote was "I don't have sympathy for people not wanting others to be able to learn languages (which has been asked for since languages came out) because they "don't want to have some non-<insertracehere> listening to their meeting"

When I quoted:

>but then you *are* prydaen, we'd just ask too many questions about what you're saying, after all, we are the inferior, aren't we?

I was quoting the whole thing, but didnt wanna paste the whole thing twice in a row, I thought it was gonna look stupid. So just imagin that I pasted the whole quote out twice, then reread my post.

And then for the Ima spy example... yer other example was better then that even. If you need to spy on us (or whoever) that badly, hire a translator to sneak in, or just spy on us with you and translate. Thats more IG then pulling out a pocket-Haakish dictionary and trying to follow what 11 people are talking about, at a fairly good speed.

Dragoonseal


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  TURNIPKID from PLAY.NET (~The Drunken Star)
On  Dec 16, 2001 at 21:45
Subject  Re: Talking (1058)
>>Try learning japanese, korean, hebrew, arabic(whatever the right name for it is), swahili, and english well enough to speak/listen to them all.

Yet there are people out there who are quite capable of speak all of these langauges, though they are few and far between. Believe it or not I have a friend who speaks fluent English and Korean, because he grew up in a houshold where both were spoken, converted to Judiasm so he learned basic Hebrew, and learned Spanish after living in Spain for 3 years <g> All are very different langauges, but he can at least hold a semi decent conversation in all of them. And face it, if a Pyrdean dictionary/grammer book came out next week, I could study it and speak to you in it and though I might be speaking perfect Pyrdeanese a Pyrdaen who's never looked at the dictionary wouldn't be able to understand a word I say, different physical structure or not.

The only real problem I have with learning langauges is that it really would be a case of all or nothing. If they found a way to put in incrimental steps that would be super nifty. Or found a way that the langauges would acutally be translated when then are spoken rather than say "Halfling says something in Olvi" that would be super duper nifty.

SC and player of


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DRAGOONSEAL from PLAY.NET (Horse: Its Whats for Dinner!)
On  Dec 16, 2001 at 21:46
Subject  Re: Talking (1059)
>And if you think people learning too many langauges is a problem, I dare you to find one person under 80th circle who has over 400 scholarship. And I dare you even further to find one who is not an Empath or a Cleric.

Alright ya got a point there. If it was 150 for an extra language then 2 extra would be the most any would get for a bit ;). Its just because people don't like to train it, I 'ave just a bit under 100 myself, and I'm a barb, its not _hard_ to train, just that people generally don't like doing it. Same reason most people don't have many brawl ranks ;).

<Points to Kitrinx's post a few times>

There ya go, she said it a hell of a lot better then I was trying to say it. =)

Dragoonseal


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  CTRADER from PLAY.NET
On  Dec 16, 2001 at 21:48
Subject  Re: Talking (1060)
I think if a language learning system is ever implimented Bards should get a huge bonus. Just my thoughts.

-Fre'


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DANTASE from PLAY.NET (Ecoles)
On  Dec 16, 2001 at 21:49
Subject  Re: Talking (1061)
Actually, let me explain something to everyone... I speak 4 languages fluently, and learning a 5th one. I'm only 19, and originally a speaker of Portuguese, English being my third learnt language.

Now on those premises, learning new languages become easier after the second one but (and this is a bit BUT), only if those languages are of the same linguistic root. Lets say for example, the Romance languages that have been spoken of (these are mainly - portuguese, french, spanish and latin, with English taking a bit of this, but also some from the Germanic root)

I speak Portuguese, Spanish, English and French, and learning Korean at the moment. Korean comes from a completely different background then all other languages I know, and I can tell you, it's harder to learn then it was to learn my second language. Why? Simply due to the fact of my own voalition. Let's say I'm reading Korean, and a word seems very similar to one in one of the forementioned languages, my mind instantly assumes the meaning of the word to be the same, and this increases with the number of languages one learns. Although this wouldn't be the fact if one learned languages from all different linguistical roots, nullifying the problem.

Now, let's apply the same concept to that of our wonderful game of DR. Common.... a language used by all. Let's take in comparison now, the S'kra Mur language and the Prydaen language. On the first hand, one has the S'kra Mur, a race that created some things (and pardon my ignorance) and had a vast empire (or so I think), on the second hand there's a partial nomadic, solitary race, where books were not widely used, where history was passed in the forms of songs and poems (That's why all Prydaen books are written by non-prydaens).

Now, the linguistic roots of both there races would be completely different, due to obvious physical differences and to an extent cultural, since either race had no contact with the other before the Prydaen/Rakash migration.

Such reasons would make the trading of languages between the two races near impossible. Why you might ask? Prydaen superior attitude would deem another language, other then common (which they would use to communicate with the lesser races), inferior to their person and therefore never bother to learn it, and if I'm not mistaken, so would the S'kra Murs have a similar, if slightly modified, reason for not learning other languages.

Now, while I have no problem with awarding one guild, and at this I would think Bard would be the best at this, awarding the "masses" to learn other languages to be improbable. Maybe similar languages , or those that have been around each other so that a mixing of the languages would take place (this is known to happen in our world) would be awarded learning of other languages similar to their own (ie. Elves, Dwarves and Humans have been around each other for countless generations, or depending on the race, not so countless, and therefore some of their languages would mix together, allowing one of the three to learn each other's languages), and maybe Prydaen and Rakash (but it has been said that Prydaens were given a device by Eu that allowed the Claw of Azca, which was the trading "group" of Prydaens, allowing them to comunicate with the Rakash, where both parties would understand each other).

I'm not against the learning of other languages, as long as this ability is awarded to a few, as much as the Prydaens would not like others being able to understand some of the things they talk about, so would everyone else.

Ecoles, (yes I am a Prydaen, and no, not biased)

I'm still


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  TURNIPKID from PLAY.NET (~The Drunken Star)
On  Dec 16, 2001 at 21:49
Subject  Re: Talking (1062)
>>its not _hard_ to train

Oh but it's slow and painful, slow and painful <g>

SC and player of


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DRAGOONSEAL from PLAY.NET (Horse: Its Whats for Dinner!)
On  Dec 16, 2001 at 21:51
Subject  Re: Talking (1063)
>Just because it annoys you that you can't be part of a clique doesn't mean that the people who are proud of their race and like to speak aloud to only their race members should have that feature stolen from them.<

> So in other words, just cause your reasons are OOC you want to keep it? :)

> Toren

And the OOC part of that was...?

Dragoonseal


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DRAGOONSEAL from PLAY.NET (Horse: Its Whats for Dinner!)
On  Dec 16, 2001 at 21:55
Subject  Re: Talking (1064)
See.. everyone has common for the same reason for the translators in Star Trek. The game has to be at least somewhat user-friendly. Ye probably understand what I mean.

Dragoonsea, who's going to bed, will continue this later =)


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  MAXWELLSDEMON from PLAY.NET (Delgareth)
On  Dec 16, 2001 at 22:00
Subject  Re: Talking (1065)
I speak German, Serbian, and a smattering of French. That's three language groups right there (and two alphabets). Granted, all are Indo-European languages, but one's Germanic, one's Slavic, and one's a Romance language... not all that closely related.

I was trying to lighten things up a bit with my "silly American" comment. But there's a lot of truth to it. Many people in other parts of the world speak more than one language on a daily basis, and picking up a new language is only tough if you've never done it before, be it Spanish, Swahili, or American Sign Language.

Anyway... my basic point being... languages are NOT that tough to learn, so they A) should be learnable and B) shouldn't take savant levels in Scholarship to do it. Bards and Traders should have a bonus or advantage of some sort, yes, but neither should it be exclusive to them.

Delg's player


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  WARCHILDE from PLAY.NET (Sin Is In)
On  Dec 16, 2001 at 22:05
Subject  The Word to end the Talking (1066)
Let me be the first to give you a lesson in speaking in the Prydaen language.

*THWAP!* *THWAP! THWAP!*

That means you have got to be kidding me with this entire thread.

~Ternith, Thwap clan.


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  TURNIPKID from PLAY.NET (~The Drunken Star)
On  Dec 16, 2001 at 22:09
Subject  Re: Talking (1067)
>Such reasons would make the trading of languages between the two races near impossible. Why you might ask? Prydaen superior attitude would deem another language, other then common (which they would use to communicate with the lesser races), inferior to their person and therefore never bother to learn it, and if I'm not mistaken, so would the S'kra Murs have a similar, if slightly modified, reason for not learning other languages.

Yes, but Common provide literally a common ground for the exchange of langauges, it sort of the Rosetta Stone of DR.

And taken from "Words Every Trader Should Know"

>>Sometimes a little coaxing in a person's native tongue makes the difference between a happy customer and "not interested." Here's a start, though if ye deal frequently with a particular race, ye should take the trouble to learn the language. (I'm leaving out Elothean 'cause it's a bunch of mishmash that makes Elven seem simple. The highbrows won't expect ye to know it anyway.)

The book then proceeds to list words in several langauges, including S'kra which apprently the author didn't deem "too hard" and in fact the Elothean tounge is considered to be the most difficult langauge and the race that is too "aloof" to even expect you to know it. <g> And since the S'kra empire was so widespread, and the Dragon Priest were so darn dangerous, it might have been quite beneficial for many people to learn S'kra ar one point <g>

What might be cool it a "tier" system of how hard it is to learn a langauge, either based on difficulty or reclusivness of the race. IE Tier 1 would require 100 ranks of scholarship to learn, Tier 2 a total of 150 to learn and Tier 3 200 ranks to learn. Tiers would be base on presumed difficulty and aloofness of the race. So say Gamgweth was a Tier one langauge, it would require 100 ranks to learn. Then the same person wanted to learn Pyrdaen, a Tier 3 langauge, it would require an ADDITIONAL 200 ranks of schol for a grand total of 300 ranks to learn both langauges. Bards could get a substantial bonus by having the req for Tier 1 langs reduced to 75 ranks, and 100 ranks for all other langauges.

SC and player of


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DANTASE from PLAY.NET (Ecoles)
On  Dec 16, 2001 at 22:21
Subject  Re: Talking (1068)
>>What might be cool it a "tier" system of how hard it is to learn a langauge, either based on difficulty or reclusivness of the race. IE Tier 1 would require 100 ranks of scholarship to learn, Tier 2 a total of 150 to learn and Tier 3 200 ranks to learn. Tiers would be base on presumed difficulty and aloofness of the race. So say Gamgweth was a Tier one langauge, it would require 100 ranks to learn. Then the same person wanted to learn Pyrdaen, a Tier 3 langauge, it would require an ADDITIONAL 200 ranks of schol for a grand total of 300 ranks to learn both langauges. Bards could get a substantial bonus by having the req for Tier 1 langs reduced to 75 ranks, and 100 ranks for all other langauges.

First actual idea anyone has posted...

Thank you. Would have no proble with something like this.

Ecoles


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  MOONTOUCHED from PLAY.NET (Official Board Monkey)
On  Dec 16, 2001 at 22:27
Subject  Re: Talking (1069)
I'd give you all a lesson on the common roots of language and Indo-Germanic and all that incredibly fun stuff you learn and quickly forget in High School, but that's not the point here.

The point is some languages in a fantasy realm are simply not going to be related to another by any stretch of the imagination. For all I know, you're speaking in tongues.

However.

This is where the Charisma and the Intelligence come in. Charisma would allow you to sidestep possible taboo and faux pas by indentifying and playing down those hazards. Intelligence allows you to deduce the "jist" of a sentance, or to decipher an entire sentance. Some languages should be hard on some races, yes.. but that's totally moot. I've yet to see any of the people arguing against this speak Common with a heavy accent (as would be the case with languages that come from inhereintly different root systems occurs -- a Chinese person speaking English). Their Common is perfect. And since everyone knows Common, there's a root language here. Since there's a root language, it's safe to assume that all of the existing languages can be learned, with a little work, using the roots established with Common.

Until I see Prydaen walking around with severe lisps (and I'll admit, Slashclaw has some interesting inflections and occasional misuse of words, but she's the only Prydaen I've seen doing it besides my own -- and her sentances remain completely coherent and, if you're willing to allow for dialect, grammatically acceptable). I've never seen a Rakash use an inflection (and that includes my own, albeit for a very different set of RP circumstances). In fact, outside of Plat, I've never encountered really odd inflection and truly borderline coherent speech from any of the races.

In Plat, I've seen some interesting slurring and blurring of the lines, although in general people tend to "dumb down" their speech more than "flavor" it. Togs, and by this I mean all 'Togs in Plat and togmun, are the only race I've encountered that truly seem to speak a different language. However, and this is important here, I can understand them. When one says "Heyo always-bleeding-bear-furry!" I know they're talking to me. When Actias kindly informs us that "that-bear-furry is deaded by the huge clicky armor thingies, but is helped by climby-scaly-furry!" I know that he means Bakan is dead in warlkins, but Dizzy is there with him (presumably trying to help). There's a root language there. Togs may have their very own dialect of Common (and appropriately so), but since I know Common, I can use what I know to decipher what they're saying. This holds true for all languages. All the races can speak Common, so there is apparently _some_ root between all the races, and therefore it can be assumed, logically, that all the languages are more or less learnable within a reasonable standard.

Anyway, I'm rambling (a decidedly Rakash thing to do)..

Loq


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  RESiSTANCE_Bomb from Microsoft Gaming Zone (Jaebom)
On  Dec 16, 2001 at 22:28
Subject  Re: Talking (1070)
you're missing the point here. you're saying you don't want other languages to be learned so that races are more unique, right? i'm saying that i want languages to be learnable because there ARE people who would need it, such as traders who trade in places where common is not spoken. historically, common was created to provide more unity in the old empire because it would allow everyone to learn 1 language to talk to everyone instead of an extra 6 beyond their native tounge. as for unrelated languages, there's a guy in onna my classes who's a native english speaker who knows japanese very well and is learning chinese, both of which are VERY different from english, and from each other (hell, chinese is a tonal language to some extent) if you wanna get right down to it, s'kra speak common equally as well as humans and prydaens and everything else for that matter, what's the difference if i wanna learn gamgweth and a human wants to learn s'kra if both of us can speak the same language with no trouble? you're just being silly, there's no conceivable thing to stop someone from learning to speak the language of another race. if we were all born knowing common and our racial language, maybe, but any fool knows babies are born without the knowledge to speak (and in the case of people, anatomical inability IRL for several months so that we can breathe and swallow at the same time while we're nursing) where the problem lies beyond game mechanics with learning a new language is is beyond me

Jaebom --i'll compromise if you do, but if you're gonna be stubborn, i'm gonna be stubborn too


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DANTASE from PLAY.NET (Ecoles)
On  Dec 16, 2001 at 22:43
Subject  Re: Talking (1071)
>>i'll compromise if you do, but if you're gonna be stubborn, i'm gonna be stubborn too

Now why resort to name calling? That was my first post on the subject, and therefore not being stubborn, that would require a number of posts on the same subject all of them arguing in favor of the original. I belive my points to be valid ones, especially the superiority one, and the the physical differences. Where a Prydaen would be able to make deep growling sounds as it is seen in the following:

>>You growl low in the back of your throat.

Someone without the Prydaen anatomy be unable to truly speak the language, specially since there is no record of a Prydaen written record up to date, only non-prydaens primary writtings about Prydaen culture/race/history.

Same could be said for a Prydaen trying to learn S'kra Mur. The knowledge of understanding could be there, but not that of speach.

Ecoles

And now you can call me stubborn


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  SCYTHA from PLAY.NET (Shokuyou nano?)
On  Dec 16, 2001 at 22:44
Subject  Re: Talking (1072)
>where the problem lies beyond game mechanics with learning a new language is is beyond me

The problem lies in the fact that it's a game, not RL. In games people do things differently than in RL. In the game, they gave people languages so the races could roleplay and feel more seperate, and common so players could function with one another. With a language like common, having other players ecroach upon racial territory is completely unnescisary, and unwanted by many.

-Kitrinx


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  CTRADER from PLAY.NET
On  Dec 16, 2001 at 22:55
Subject  Re: Talking (1073)
>In the game, they gave people languages so the races could roleplay and feel more seperate, and common so players could function with one another. With a language like common, having other players ecroach upon racial territory is completely unnescisary, and unwanted by many.

Sorry, but that is a mute point. Alot of folks don't like graverobbing and stealing, but it is an intergral part of how people RP. If my charactor has been studying elven lore for most of his life, singing and reading elvish stories and song there is no reason why he shouldn't be able to speak the language. I don't think being able to converse in another language is encroaching upon racial territory at all IG and OOC. Would you be offended if a tourist asked you directions in english on how to get somewhere?. Would an elf be offended if a human asked them how much they were selling a long bow for in Illithic? I don't think so and in literary works it proves this as well. <In the Hobbit the halflings were learned in some of the high speech of the elves.>

-the player of Fre'

"Let my knowlage go"

-Fre'


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  RESiSTANCE_Bomb from Microsoft Gaming Zone (Jaebom)
On  Dec 16, 2001 at 23:00
Subject  Re: Talking (1074)
an' the elven girl that we took in when she was orphened who learned s'kra from us, and who i learned ilithic from? the number of times i had my roleplaying cramped because i couldn't actually understand the ilithic being spoken and she wasn't there to help with the translations are uncountable. i see absolutely no reason why i can't learn 2 or 3 languages. i don't want to learn them all, that would be silly, and honestly, i wouldn't seek out a group of prydaens just to listen to them. their sheer elitist attitudes tend to annoy me, and most people who don't play prydaens (often for the same reason that i wouldn't try to find a bunch of 'em to listen to) i'm not saying all prydaen are elitist by any means, i've got several good prydaen friends. your reasons for not wanting languages to be learned are coming across from a very "i don't want you speaking prydaen simply because you're not prydaen" tone. not hard to see where i'm gettin an elitist vibe here, which i find completely silly in every way, shape, and form in regards to my ability to learn your language at least to the extent of understanding it. you wanna get down to that, let's take a look at george lucas' take on this. when han solo is talking to greedo or jaba the hut or chewbaca or R2-D2, what happens? they each speak their own language but understand the others. if that's the compromise that must be come to for prydaen because of anatomical constrictions, so be it, i just don't want every language other than s'kra and common to be completely off-limits to me for even roleplaying purposes such as trading in foreign places or meeting someone who doesn't know common (i've met 1 or two people who roleplayed this quite well)

Jaebom --miffed


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  TURNIPKID from PLAY.NET (~The Drunken Star)
On  Dec 16, 2001 at 23:10
Subject  Re: Talking (1075)
>>In the game, they gave people languages so the races could roleplay and feel more seperate, and common so players could function with one another.

How's about this:

They gave people langauges so they could learn more about their own race and create a feeling of kinship with members of their own race rather than exclude other races.

Having the occasional odd Elothean walk in a be able to understand you as you speak Gorbesh wouldn't destroy your race as you know it nor hamper your RP, in fact you'd have to be extra careful of what you say just in case someone who can understand you is around (ever see the episode of Sienfeld with the Korean Nail place?). In fact in the end it could only support RP. My character is someone who might have been born Elothean and speak Gerganshune (sp) but she spent most of her childhood in Arthe Dale. You're telling me in all that time she didn't pick up a WORD of Olvi? And does it make sense that a character who RPs being the foster child of member of another race is born with the inherent knowledge of how to speak their own race's langauge?

SC and player of


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  RESiSTANCE_Bomb from Microsoft Gaming Zone (Jaebom)
On  Dec 16, 2001 at 23:41
Subject  Re: Talking (1076)
what SC said.

Jaebom --elitism=bad


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  BLUR from PLAY.NET (Refugee from the Unknown Lands)
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 03:49
Subject  Re: Talking (1079)
Does anyone know the official DR point of view on this matter? It would seem to me that Simu wishes different races to have their own separate language at their disposal, and to argue with each other trying to create justifications to thwart this is arguing a moot point all around. It is what it is, and chances are its not going to change.

Jaebom, I would like to reassure you personally that when you are in the company of prydaens (you sure seem to have a thing about prydaens, ya know) and said prydaens are speaking their native tongue, they are probably not talking about you. No need to get all paranoid thinking that all the chuckles and remarks are at your expense. Its certainly human nature to think that. Still, We aren't. I hope that you knowing this might cause you a little peace of mind.

I have Humm speak in his native tongue for RP reasons. It is just more natural for him to do so. In Vreeland Pryde meetings, we speak Prydaenese, because we do wish a certain sense of privacy and community. Speaking Prydaenese helps us achieve this. For you to ask others to whisper entire racial meetings for your comfort is a little selfish, I feel. If we invited you, we would speak Common out of respect, but other than that, no. Also, unless we start meeting in places that we can directly control who may be present, we cannot make anyone leave. Where we meet, anyone can come. Do we want them there? Not really. Can we make them leave for our sake? No. If we speak Prydaenese, problem solved, except for a few paranoid minds that instantly think that we are joking about them. I suggest you "get over it".

About spies, heh, sorry, but you'll have to figure out a way to spy for yourself, my friend. An example would be Thangor who try as he might the GM's would not change him into a prydaen, and as a result could never speak Prydaenese, but he still found ways to be planting spies in the pryde to cause us grief with. I'm sure he still had fun with it, even thought it sure caused us headaches. I mean, he could sure rant on about us in private, but let anyone say anything about him, and boy did we hear about it. Needless to say, he wasn't important enough to us to be spying on him, but I digress.

Elitism is not bad. It just is. It can be good, bad or neither, and its all dependent upon opinions. Just because your opinion is that Elitism is bad does not make it true.

Tell the Green Beret that their "Elitism" is bad. Tell it to the Marines. You won't be received too well I assure you, and I do hope you see my point here. Being ex Marine Corps, I understand the good points of Elitism. It gives a person a reason to rise above what they feel is mundane or ordinary. Elitism should not be confused with Egotism, and my opinion is that you seem to be doing so.

About finding uses for your scholarship, I can understand your points, but as I noted above, if Simu isn't going to go along with it there is no sense wasting your words and wisdoms with it. If you're having fun with it though, please don't let my interjections stop you.

Michael, aka Humm "Proud Ears" Breaux


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  MOONTOUCHED from PLAY.NET (Official Board Monkey)
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 06:27
Subject  Language (since that's what this thread is really about!) (1081)
Respectfully Humm,

<<Does anyone know the official DR point of view on this matter? It would seem to me that Simu wishes different races to have their own separate language at their disposal, and to argue with each other trying to create justifications to thwart this is arguing a moot point all around. It is what it is, and chances are its not going to change.>>

If the GMs held the same train of thought as you do, we would not even have Prydaen. Food for thought.

<<For you to ask others to whisper entire racial meetings for your comfort is a little selfish, I feel. If we invited you, we would speak Common out of respect, but other than that, no. Also, unless we start meeting in places that we can directly control who may be present, we cannot make anyone leave. Where we meet, anyone can come. Do we want them there? Not really. Can we make them leave for our sake? No. If we speak Prydaenese, problem solved, except for a few paranoid minds that instantly think that we are joking about them. I suggest you "get over it".>>

Frankly, this is totally OOC. It's an OOC concern about your characters actions IG. If I want a private conversation in the real world, I don't simply start speaking in Spanish. Or Romanian, even. I go and find somewhere private and hold my conversation there. If you remove the chance of being overheard, you remove the risk of being overheard. I'm sorry if it "cramps your style" to have to go inside and lock a door. Cry me a river.

<<Tell the Green Beret that their "Elitism" is bad. Tell it to the Marines. You won't be received too well I assure you, and I do hope you see my point here.>>

The Marines are elite only because they hold themselves above everyone else. Speaking as a soldier here, they're fulla hot air. ::wink:: The difference between SpecOps and the Marines is ANYONE can be a Marine. To earn a bed or a berth in SpecOps requires service and expertise. Further to the point, you'd be hard pressed to say every enlisted man doesn't have a chance to be a Ranger/SEAL if they're willing to put in the time. You can be recommended for SpecOps by your XO, or you can work your can off and apply. The chance to TRY remains constant.

That's all people are asking for here. A chance to learn a language and TRY to use it properly. For all you know, Humans may end up being able to understand Prydaenese exactly, but be totally unable to enunciate properly in Prydaenese 'cause it's just a series of grunts and bellows (kind of like Han Solo trying to speak Shyriiwook).

<<If you're having fun with it though, please don't let my interjections stop you.>>

I doubt anyone intends to let you. In SpecOps, you learn anything worth fighting for is worth fighting for tooth and nail (and you learn how to use your teeth and nails to fight for it, har!).

Loq (ROR)


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  WARCHILDE from PLAY.NET (Sin Is In)
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 07:29
Subject  Re: Language (since that's what this thread is really about!) (1082)
<<The Marines are elite only because they hold themselves above everyone else. Speaking as a soldier here, they're fulla hot air. ::wink:: The difference between SpecOps and the Marines is ANYONE can be a Marine.>>

What the hell ever. When you actually know what in the hell you are talking about come on back, till then take that statement and shove it.

jimi


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DILUGER-SISK from PLAY.NET
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 08:03
Subject  Re: Language (since that's what this thread is really about!) (1083)
<<The Marines are elite only because they hold themselves above everyone else. Speaking as a soldier here, they're fulla hot air. ::wink:: The difference between SpecOps and the Marines is ANYONE can be a Marine.>>

What the hell ever. When you actually know what in the hell you are talking about come on back, till then take that statement and shove it.

jimi

Most eloquently put Jimi. Back on to the language discussion though. I could very easily see Human (and other human framed races) learning to understand the languages of the Skra/Rak/Pryds but not entiredly being able to speak them as there are certain and pronounced biological differences. Personally I would do something like a new language every 100 ranks of Scholarship or so.

The Unknown

PS Anyone can <<TRY>> to be a Marine not everyone makes it. I've been told the wash out rate is about 45% of recruits but I remember quite clearly in my basic training group we started with 186 recruits (6 full platoons) and by the time it was all said and done only 26 of us graduated.


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DARIONH from PLAY.NET (Toren, Dark Protector)
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 08:21
Subject  Re: Talking (1084)
Are you Prydaen all so arrogant to think everyone in Elanthia wants to learn Prydaenese just to listen in on your meetings? Sheesh, you act like the world revolves around you in this folder, it's gotten disturbing, and at the same time highly amusing. You have nothing constructive to say anymore, merely whining that you want to be able to talk to each other in private, whereas many people want to learn other languages for roleplay purposes.

  I suggest you Prydaen take your own advice and not take everything so seriously, because frankly you're going rabid. (Excepting Humm)

  I shall reiterate several points, maybe you'll actually read them. *is doubting it* Then I'm gonna go off and have a good laugh.

1) When languages came out, players immediately asked if there would be ways to learn new languages, Solomon (I think, it might've been another GM) responded that they were looking into it, but it'd probably cost large sums of money to do so. In any case, the response was positive.

2) Not everyone wants to learn Prydaenese. I only do because of Laelia. You are the ones being paranoid that people are going to learn it just to spite you.

3) There are many IC reasons to learn another language, such as adopted children, married couples, and many many more.

4) Arguments that "I don't like it cause I want to talk in private" are silly and OOC. I don't care one bit about whatever meetings you guys have. I know where you meet, but I don't care. Neither does most of the realms. Again, stop being paranoid. I don't expect you to "whisper entire meetings for my comfort" cause I don't care. I was simply pointing out that's the only way to be truly private.

5) Elitism is bad. There's nothing wrong with being better than other people, unless you flaunt it. An elite troop does not neccesarily have to be what is generally considered "elitist". It simply means they're the best. [This really has nothing to do with the discussion, but oh well]

6) You are correct, Humm, if Simu doesn't want to go along with something, it's pointless. However, it is unfortunately typical of Prydaen posters to try to stifle any discussion which they feel they don't like, even when the GMs haven't interjected an opinion. And even when they do, opinions can be changed. Many things that would "never" happen have indeed happened. Never is not forever here in Elanthia.

   Highly amused,
  Toren Sunreign-Jade-Stone, S'kra Gopher


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  NORTHWIND from PLAY.NET (Mykk)
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 08:50
Subject  Re: Talking (1085)
Realism vs. Gameplay

From the IC perspective, I see no reason why some races couldn't learn the languages of some other races.

From the OOC perspective, it becomes a game-play issue. Given the high amount of scholarship and/or other restrictions, I doubt it will affect anyone to a huge degree, while giving a few people a real enhancement to their role play.

I believe someday we'll see some form of a language learning system in DR. However, I would like to cast my vote for "can't learn other languages on the basis of game-play."

If I had to back that up with a reason, I guess that makes me part of the "elitist" camp; if I'm speaking my racial language, I only want others of the same race to understand it. As a halfling-primary player, I actually think anyone who chose Olvio, ie Starsha, as a second language gets bonus points in my book ;-) However, I speak more for the Elves and Humans which I presume would be the most common second languages. In a crowded area, 2 elves talking to each other would almost certainly be overheard by a non-elf. This to me degrades the concept of a racial language... from a game-play point of view.

--aka Mykk


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  WARCHILDE from PLAY.NET (Sin Is In)
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 09:01
Subject  Re: Talking (1086)
I really hate this entire thread but I am going to put up a few statements one the last post as it deals with the Prydaen language being a source of conflict here it seems.

 Number one <<I suggest you Prydaen take your own advice and not take everything so seriously, because frankly you're going rabid.>>
 I suggest you take a look at some of your previous post in this thread and practice what you are attempting to preach.

 Number two <<Not everyone wants to learn Prydaenese.>>
 This I agree with, if anyone wanted to come and listen in on a prydaen meeting all they would have to do is roll up a prydaen and sit him in the tree. Personally I would love to learn gorbesh.

 Number threee <<There are many IC reasons to learn another language, such as adopted children, married couples, and many many more.>>
 Total agreement

 Number four <<Arguments that "I don't like it cause I want to talk in private" are silly and OOC.>>
 Total disagreement. The desire to have a private meeting is in no way silly or OOC.

 Number five <<Elitism is bad.>.
 No its not. People are bad, the ideal of Elitism is good.

 Number six <<However, it is unfortunately typical of Prydaen posters to try to stifle any discussion which they feel they don't like>>
 What you are trying to do here is take a situation that degraded over a month of posting and condense it into a completly out of context statement. On the whole the typical prydaen poster does NOT attempt to stifle another poster. Are we very head strong. Certainly. But don't come here and use that as a tool in which to bastardize the typical prydaen poster.

 Number seven
 <<Sheesh, you act like the world revolves around you in this folder, it's gotten disturbing, and at the same time highly amusing. You have nothing constructive to say anymore, merely whining that you want to be able to talk to each other in private, whereas many people want to learn other languages for roleplay purposes.>>
 Few thing in that statement. Number one yes the entire world revolves arround us. Number two If you don't think what we have to say it constructive don't read it. Number three, you speak of roleplay then expect a prydaen not to act prydaen, which way do you want it?

 Number eight.
 Eight! Eight I forgot what eight was for! (For those of you that weren't out of diapers in the musical revolution of the eighties this will have no meaning for you. Violent Femmes forever!)

 Number nine
 For someone that seems to be getting irritated on someone posting critically of taking to seriously this thread and many many others Toren you need to take a few Xanax and try again tomorrow. I think the languages idea is a great one and I would love to see it implimented. But what you do is to take any post that is in anyway against something you believe in that is posted by a Prydaen and twist it into some sort of racial bigotary on the Prydaens part. Haven't you been able to figure out by now that yes, most of the "old skhool" prydaens are on the stand offish side. That isn't being detrimental to the role play of the game, it helps it. If you read the post on the Prydaen boards and on the others most of us post as our characters would reply. If you don't like that don't read them, it is as simple as that.

Now for a direct statement on the languages thing. Those that have dedicated themselves to the furthur development of there intelliect (ie especially the bard, empath, and the moon mage) I can see no reason why they would be unable to learn furthur languages. However I would say that the scholarship involved in such an endeavor would need to be prohibitivly high, and I am not talking 100 ranks here. Hell I am a barbarian and I have almost 100 in scholarship. 150ish to would be a where I would put the area of a mental primary guild and 250 plus for for the more physically orientented guilds.

*THWAP*, to all of you for making me actually think about this insane thread

~Ternith


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DANTASE from PLAY.NET (Ecoles)
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 09:25
Subject  Re: Talking (1087)
I must also reply to Toren's post.

Firstly, generalization and steriotyping are much worse then Eliticism.

Secondly, if I'm not mistaken... wait a second, I'll find it.

Here we go:

>>I don't expect you to "whisper entire meetings for my comfort"

now can I point you to the following:

>>So go someplace truly private or whisper

both made by the same poster, on the same topic. Hypocrisy is also worse then Elitism.

Thirdly, by this quote:

>>Are you Prydaen all so arrogant to think everyone in Elanthia wants to learn Prydaenese just to listen in on your meetings?

Wait till Laelia hears about this.... She's been to her fair share of Vreeland meetings, and guess what! Speaks Prydaenese. Nice things to say about your wife.....

Now. If you actually thought before ya wrote, and tried to get educated, you would know that whenever there is a non-prydaen present, we assign translators, and sometimes, when we like them, we actually speak common. Go figure!

And on a side note, no Prydaens have said anything about against learning new languages, we have just pointed out some factors that might not make it possible, and asked if such a thing came to pass, that a high level of scholarship be required, of course with the exception of a couple of stray posts, since we are Prydaens and Elitists on top of that.

Ecoles "El Furro" Dantas


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  TURNIPKID from PLAY.NET (~The Drunken Star)
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 09:41
Subject  Re: Talking (1088)
>>This to me degrades the concept of a racial language... from a game-play point of view.

Once again, that's only true if you take the stance that GMs created langauges to seperate the races rather than bring members of the same race closer together.

>>In a crowded area, 2 elves talking to each other would almost certainly be overheard by a non-elf.

I personally believe that if you are saying something that is meant for only a specific person's ears then whisper or go someplace private. I think being nasty and/or racist in another langauge because you think someone can't understand you is horrible and should damn well have the risk of backfiring on you.

I mean think about it RP standpoint. You're telling me that with all the War and whatnot between Elves and Humans did not a single one of them learned each other's langauge for espianoge purposes? That when the Dragon Priests were running around killing non-Skra, other races didn't learn how to speak Skra to save their skin? With how xenophobic Pyrdaens are in general not a one of them ever was paranoid enough to learn a different langauge just to make sure no one was plotting against them?

Langauge should be used as an RP tool, not an exlucivity (if that's a word) tool. Sure hold meetings with members of your own race and speak your own langauge all you want, but I personally think it would be MUCH cooler for say Toren to hide and listen in on an Elothean gathering as himself rather than roll up a random Elothean just for the sake of spying. I consider that an OOC solution to an IC issue. And wouldn't it be spiffy if you could continue to hold a meeting in your racial tounge despite the fact that you have graciously invited a non-<insertrace> because they so much respect for your people that they decided to learn YOUR langauge rather than forcing an entire roomful of people to reduce their langauge to the ever base Common for just one person?

And I really wish I could find the post, but sware on my right arm that a little while back a GM said something about working on a laungauge system. I'm pretty sure I remember jumping out of my chair and started singing "I am gonna learn Olvio! I am gonna learn Olvio!" But then again I am insane as the whole as jumping up and dancing thing just proved, heh.

SC and player of


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  WARCHILDE from PLAY.NET (Sin Is In)
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 09:49
Subject  Re: Talking (1089)
<? With how xenophobic Pyrdaens are in general not a one of them ever was paranoid enough to learn a different langauge just to make sure no one was plotting against them?>

Not that I am actually a member of a pryde, hehe, but like I said I would love to learn Gorbesh or Rakash, and not to be able to go over to there homes for chatting, tea and crumpets.

~Ternith the scholarship minded Barbarian


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  TURNIPKID from PLAY.NET (~The Drunken Star)
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 09:56
Subject  Re: Talking (1090)
>>Not that I am actually a member of a pryde, hehe, but like I said I would love to learn Gorbesh or Rakash, and not to be able to go over to there homes for chatting, tea and crumpets.

Heh, yeah I know not all Pyrdeans want to claw the face off of non-Pyrdeans. I was making one of those totally evil gernealization things. If you learn how to speak Elothean one day I'll invite ya over for a cup of warm rice wine and some raw tuna sainyuso rolls. Heck, come on over anyways. :)

~Celebrant Starsha Chracco, and player of


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  WARCHILDE from PLAY.NET (Sin Is In)
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 10:31
Subject  Re: Talking (1091)
<Heh, yeah I know not all Pyrdeans want to claw the face off of non-Pyrdeans.>

HEHE, Actually you could lump me in the generalization. Want to learn Elothean to listen in on the House of GreyStorm to..well basically kill them all (not sure if they are under the same leadership as before if not I would like to speak with the new house leader) and listen to the Rakash to...well not kill all (tail curls Bractos) of them but kill some of them (nudges Palefox), but i'll come down and chat with you just because you are Starsha and I have heard alot of good things about you. Just please keep what ever wine you mentioned to yourself and i'll bring some prydaen bloodwine.

~Ternith


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  TURNIPKID from PLAY.NET (~The Drunken Star)
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 11:29
Subject  Re: Talking (1092)
>>but i'll come down and chat with you just because you are Starsha and I have heard alot of good things about you.

Awwww stop, I'm blushing! :-p

>>Want to learn Elothean to listen in on the House of GreyStorm to..well basically kill them all (not sure if they are under the same leadership as before if not I would like to speak with the new house leader)

Well unfortunetely we've sorta drifted apart again (too many houses not enough time ::twitch::) Last I heard Summerr had taken over and Iron had resigned, but that was awhile ago.

SC


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  WARCHILDE from PLAY.NET (Sin Is In)
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 11:35
Subject  Re: Talking (1093)
Well if Iron was in charge of them the leadership has changed from when they attacked the Elder. If the new head of the House of the Storm would contact me I would appreciate it.

~Ternith


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  SAILORPLUTO from PLAY.NET
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 12:00
Subject  Re: Talking (1094)
Personally, I'd love to be able to learn other languages, and I do think it would add to the RP, even for us elitest prydaens. Of course, it should be very difficult to learn, but possible. People worry about spies, but just think how fun it would be to discover a spy and oust them, or if you're laughing at some other race it would add RP if every once in a while they might understand you (ala Sienfelds Korean beauty salon episode). But really, languages ARE there to sepperate the races more then bring them together, there should be more races like us elitest prydaens making race mean something besides a few special verbs and stat bonuses. I mean seriously, elves and dwarves getting married and adopting gnome kids? What about skra and togs being buddies forgetting all about the history of slavery? Well, I'm drifting, but anyway, I think it should be possible to learn languages, but very hard, with perhaps certain races getting bonuses to certain languages, i.e. prydaen-rakash, skra-tog, halflings with all since they always shared a culture with other races, elothian being very hard for any race to learn, etc.

~Daergoth, a prydaen not against learning the furless tongues


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  SAILORPLUTO from PLAY.NET
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 12:22
Subject  Re: Talking (1095)
Heh, figures as soon as I post and finish my coffee, I think of more. What I would like to see is Scholarship being a req, but not the way it's learned, you would need to take lessons from a member of that race or something. Maybe 10 sepperate 1 hour long lessons, after the first lesson, you see people speaking actual messages instead of just speaking they're language, with 1/10 of the message correct, and the rest randomly garbled, each lesson would increase the percent that's ungarbled by 1/10 untill it's all understood...perhaps anything spoken in the language being learned would be garbles similarly, or perhaps a sepperate lesson set would be required.

~Daergoth says in prydaenese."djslh aw;o8 owej;l owij/ oqwi4u l;i ;oair jkrh ;."

P.S. if you knew prydaenese you would understand that, hehe


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  TURNIPKID from PLAY.NET (~The Drunken Star)
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 13:30
Subject  Race vs Culture (1096)
>>But really, languages ARE there to sepperate the races more then bring them together, there should be more races like us elitest prydaens making race mean something besides a few special verbs and stat bonuses.

You should meet some hard core Elothean players, they put Pyrdeans to shame <g>. Race is all about RP and the way you act. It about doing your research, studing the customs, paying attention to the rules the GMs provide and just being overall consistant. Even if you play a "rebel" you should know what you are rebelling against. IE A Pyrdean who kills a Pride member better damn well be ready to face whatever punishment the Elders deal out and an Elothean who insists that the race is a group of Half-Breeds better be ready to face the fact that they will be laughed at.

Just choosing a specific race while you're in the CM does not automatically make you a member of that race socially. Culture and race are very seperate animals. Starsha takes care of a young Rakash girl who lost her parents at a young age. While Starsha tried to educate the girl on her heritage, the child will end up being more culturally Elothean than Rakash because Starsha is so traditionally Elothean. And you better believe Starsha's Olvi upbringing shows through from time to time despite her best efforts (ask the people at Ythik and Kerrian's wedding hehe). And langauge isn't a part of race, it has nothing to do with genes or blood or anything, it is a part of culture. And culture, being the intangible mass it is, is something that can be shared.

~Celebrant Starsha Chracco


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  TURNIPKID from PLAY.NET (~The Drunken Star)
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 14:08
Subject  Proposed Langauge System (1097)
It's a little complicated and is probably impossible but I'll give it a go (and thanks to Daergoth for a little inspiration).

Langauges would based on a tier system with racial modifiers giving bonuses to some races learning other races langauges. Humans, of course, would be the middle ground. Tier 1 would require 100 ranks of scholarship to learn, Tier 2 would require 150, Tier 3 would require 200. Tiers are based on (a) reclusivness of race and/or (b) difficulty of language. The tier system for a human would be as follows:

Tier 1: Gamgweth, Olvi, Toggish, Hakish (I waill never spell that right)

Tier 2: Rakash, Gorbesh, S'kra, Ilithic

Tier 3: Gerenshuge, Pyrdaenese

So in order for a human to learn all the langauges, he would need to have a whopping 1700 ranks in Scholarship. Anyone who can accompish that deserves to learn them all <g>

Racial modifiers:

S'kras would be able to learn Toggish with only 75 ranks of scholarship.

Togs would get S'kra knocked down to a Tier 1 langauge.

Pyrdaens would get Rakash as a Tier 1 language and Rakash would get Pyrdaen as a Tier 2 langauge.

Due to high wisdom/intelligence, Elotheans and Gnomes could chose ANY langauge at their first 100 ranks, after that it follows the normal system.

Elves and Dwarves (Dwarfs?) would get a bonus to Gamgweth, learning it at 75 ranks.

After you have enough ranks, you find a member of the race who's langauge you want to learn and they begin to teach you (kinda the same way horse stuff is taught). You would need a total of 5 one hour lessons (with our without the same teacher) in order to learn a language. At any point before the lesson is completed you can change your mind and learn a different language, but that sets your timer back to 0.

~Celebrant Starsha Chracco and the player who is just trying to avoid schoolwork hehehe


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  WARCHILDE from PLAY.NET (Sin Is In)
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 14:12
Subject  Re: Proposed Langauge System (1098)
Very good idea except for this part

<<Due to high wisdom/intelligence, Elotheans and Gnomes could chose ANY langauge at their first 100 ranks, after that it follows the normal system.>>

Besides that two thumbs up.

~Ternith


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  TURNIPKID from PLAY.NET (~The Drunken Star)
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 14:31
Subject  Re: Proposed Langauge System (1099)
Heh, trying to make that those Intelligence/Wisdom bonuses count for something, since Elotheans and Gnomes both get shafted on encumbrance penalties :-( How's about this:

Elotheans learn S'kra and Ilithic as Tier 1 langauges (Due to the fact that those Dragon Priests are so nearby and Shard is in Ilithi so one would think we would hear Ilithic enough) and Gnomes get to learn any langauge at 100 ranks and then proceed normally. (throw the little fellas a bone, ya can already kill `em by sitting on em <g>)

SC


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  TURNIPKID from PLAY.NET (~The Drunken Star)
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 14:36
Subject  Re: Proposed Langauge System (1100)
Oh! I left a part out! I'm also one of those people who believe that Bards should get something spiffy when it comes to understanding langauges of other races. In order to speak a langauge a bard would have to leanr under the normal system, but when it comes to understanding langauges I propose giving them an Enchant (fairly high circle, mid 30s to ealy 40s) that allows them to understand any langauge. That's not speaking, just listening. Would be helpful for them when it comes to translating songs and stories.

SC


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  WARCHILDE from PLAY.NET (Sin Is In)
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 14:38
Subject  Re: Proposed Langauge System (1101)
On the bard thing.

For that incrediable of an enchante I would say that would need to be more like a 60th to 70th level enchante rather than a 30th to 40th, and would require a specific rank in both vocal music and musical lore.

~Ternith


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  RESiSTANCE_Bomb from Microsoft Gaming Zone (Jaebom)
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 15:34
Subject  Re: Proposed Langauge System (1102)
by 60th or 70th, it would be virtually useless because we'd already KNOW HALF OF THEM ANYWAY!!! and let's look at this realistically...how many bards have you heard of reaching levels like that? i'll tell ya this, if there are more than 25 of 'em out there already, i'll be surprised. i've also got a problem with this being an enchante. the time it takes to get one coded and tested is ludicrous. it's not like onna your spells where they announce it and you've got it in 6 months, our last working enchante was something like 36 months back, and before that it was a couple years again. another problem with that is the fact that alot of bards stagnate for one reason or another yet still play regularly and get unreal ammounts of scholarship and teaching for a mid 20 to mid 30 circle character. there's also the time it takes the majority of us to get to that point. i've seen people get to 30th in 2 months, but i doubt how honestly this was acheived. a more realistic time-frame with constant training is 5 to 6 months, which is nothing out of the ordinary, but taking a year to hit 30th is by no means uncommon. 60th is generally concidered unreachable by the average player. they simply don't have the time nor the patience to make it there. mech and music lores aren't fun to train when you need as much as a bard would (i'm not sure on exact numbers, i stopped caring about a year ago). most of our non-enchante related abilities are based on the levels are skills and atributes are at, not how many circles we've got. throw voice is entirely skill based, but needing 1000 some odd ranks of general lore is a bit rediculous for a vocal ability considering little of those ranks would come from music (teaching, scholarship, and mech would be a large chunk of it) gah...damnit, lost my point somewhere in the ramblings....any bards out there care to clarify a bit? i'm sure one of ya knows me well enough to know what the hell i was trying to say there...anyway, i'm all for bards 'n' traders, and maybe moonies, but to a lesser extent, getting a bonus in some way to learning languages...maybe just listening to them, but speaking as well as listening would be far more useful for roleplaying reasons, especially to traders. oh yeah...another thing about the enchante, the ability to understand all languages would just be a bit unfair in many ways, and i'm sure onna the people with the more egotistical form of elitism goin on could point a few out (that better? and i ain't paranoid about you talking about me while i'm in the room. please note that any references to such things should be concidered utter satire with a sprinkling of sarcasm and cynicism)

enough rambling, try ta keep the flames to a minimum, and yes, i'm aware i've done a few myself, don't bother pointing it out, i'm tryin ta keep my own to a minimum too

Jaebom --still no good IC reason for not allowing the learning of languages


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  WARCHILDE from PLAY.NET (Sin Is In)
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 15:48
Subject  Re: Proposed Langauge System (1103)
<<how many bards have you heard of reaching levels like that? i'll tell ya this, if there are more than 25 of 'em out there already, i'll be surprised.>>

Exactly my point, it shouldn't be a cake walk to get a skill like that.

<<another problem with that is the fact that alot of bards stagnate for one reason or another yet still play regularly and get unreal ammounts of scholarship and teaching for a mid 20 to mid 30 circle character. >>

What number do you see as unreal, if it is unnatrually high I might be inclined to agree with you, but I for one don't really see the reasoning behind rewarding a "stagnate" player with any skill much less one that they could put to real use.

<<60th is generally concidered unreachable by the average player.>>

mmmm I think you have been hanging arround the wrong people.

~Ternith who hopes none of that is viewed as a flame, wasn't my intent..this time hehe


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  CTRADER from PLAY.NET
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 16:25
Subject  Re: Proposed Langauge System (1104)
<<60th is generally concidered unreachable by the average player.>>

>mmmm I think you have been hanging arround the wrong people.

You've obviously never trained a high circle bard.

-Fre'


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  RESiSTANCE_Bomb from Microsoft Gaming Zone (Jaebom)
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 16:25
Subject  Re: Proposed Langauge System (1105)
they stagnate circle-wise, not skill-wise

average player of a bard

bards get their last thing besides titles at 36th, why would anyone wanna go higher than that other than titles? 60th is a circle rarely striven for, and generally concidered to have no point. the lore between 36th and 60th is also very prohibitous. that's why it's generally thought of as unreachable

Jaebom --better?


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  WARCHILDE from PLAY.NET (Sin Is In)
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 16:34
Subject  Re: Proposed Langauge System (1106)
<<You've obviously never trained a high circle bard.>>

You obviously are in the wrong guild if you think that giving up on your progression is a bad thing. I don't mean to sound rude but if it is that terrible then what are you still doing in it? I still don't see where anyone would believe that they should be entitled to something when they stagnate. That would be like going to the barb folder and saying, you know what I am bored with circling can someone just give me Dragon Dance cause have lots of mech and hiding.

I have trained up a bard to 30th+ and another to I think he is like 17th or 18th and was brought into the guild by one of the best bardess there ever has been, Natole. But that didn't change that fact that when I got to that point I came to the relization that bard was completly a waste of time, so I made the switch and you know what I was right. Now don't get me wrong here that is just my humble (not) opinion.

But this is getting way off topic. I still feel that a level of 60 on this non existant skill isn't to much to ask for.

<<better?>>

Better explaniation but still not (in my opinion) a valid reason on giving someone something they haven't earned.

~Ternith


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  CTRADER from PLAY.NET
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 16:55
Subject  Re: Proposed Langauge System (1107)
Again you haven't trained a high circle bard and stuck with it and waited for something useful to come out of the once a year meetings and the insane amount of lore we know. Natole was (and is sometimes still, in my opinion) a good teacher and bard, but she hasn't reached sixty has she? And even if she has (I haven't asked her recently since her appearance if more and more rare) what would it matter, she would still have the same enchantes and abilities that the 36th circle bards have. Bards DESERVE abilities that require the ranks they have already aquired.

>I came to the relization that bard was completly a waste of time, so I made the switch and you know what I was right

You we're right, about not being cut out to be a bard. All the bards I know stay in the guild for one reason, because they love the guild and alot of those great folks I have had the privaledge of knowing have left the guild in light of stagnation for the same reason you did obviously. (Danner, Giona...to name a few). So (please don't take this rudely) don't lecture me on why I am still member of my guild and don't tell me being a bard is a waste of time. Who is going to write the songs and the stories that time remebers you by? Well it won't be me, because your history doesn't concern me one bit.

-Fre'

"Sensing some flute envy"


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  TAMIERA1 from PLAY.NET
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 17:04
Subject  Re: Proposed Langauge System (1108)
>In order to speak a langauge a bard would have to leanr under the normal system, but when it comes to understanding langauges I propose giving them an Enchant (fairly high circle, mid 30s to ealy 40s)

Moon Mages have a planned spell called Voices which I believe isn't one of the scrapped spells (if I'm wrong, do correct me please).

>Requires Seer's Sense, Hypnotize. A limited form of ESP, Voices allows the caster to temporarily understand and speak languages that he doesn't actually know.

Tamiera


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  SHALLOWSOUL from PLAY.NET
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 17:14
Subject  Re: Proposed Langauge System (1109)
<<Moon Mages have a planned spell called Voices which I believe isn't one of the scrapped spells (if I'm wrong, do correct me please).>>

Rigby made some comment a few months back about Voices, I can't remember if he scrapped the spell outright, but I know I was dissapointed to learn that he wouldn't be releasing the spell any time soon (if it was scrapped or just a very low priority I can't remember).


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  SCYTHA from PLAY.NET (Shokuyou nano?)
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 17:15
Subject  Re: Proposed Langauge System (1110)
Heh, if languages are going to be taught, make teaching them a skill specific to the teachers of elanthia. Have a scholarship requirement for the learner, as mentioned before, and the teachers would be Bards primarily since they are the most worldly, empaths and traders secondary (the lore primes). Make the ability to teach a language based on ranks of teaching. Like, to teach a language you must have at least 300 ranks of teaching. Just because you can speak a language does not mean you have the skills needed to teach it to another person.. it would make sense that you'd need a good deal of skill to help someone learn (make that teaching skill mean something). There's no need to make it circle based at all. It's the teaching and scholarship skills that are important.

The closer to impossible it is to learn a language, the happier i'll be. I still think that languages help define races, and it would be taking away identity from the more unique races to please the more mundane races.

-Kitrinx


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  WARCHILDE from PLAY.NET (Sin Is In)
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 17:22
Subject  Re: Proposed Langauge System (1111)
This would normally be where I started in flaming someone due to obviously stupid statements but I am not going to do that. I am just going to comment I swear.

<<Bards DESERVE abilities that require the ranks they have already aquired.>>

This is your problem right here. No one deserves anything. People EARN things.

<<what would it matter, she would still have the same enchantes and abilities that the 36th circle bards have.>>

That is like saying a 36th level barb using wolverine would have the same power of that dance that a 58th level barb has using it. Try again, your wrong.

Here is where you think you need to get a bit nasty so I hope the board monitor cuts me some slack. I didn't start it this time, I was being nice.
 <<You we're right, about not being cut out to be a bard.>>
 Duh, way to repeat what I said..I guess.

<<So (please don't take this rudely) don't lecture me on why I am still member of my guild and don't tell me being a bard is a waste of time.>>

  I didn't. Try using that scholarship a bit more and reading. I plainly stated that was my opinion. I only assumed you DESERVE the right to know what that meant. I'll be more forthcoming next time in explaining it.

<<Who is going to write the songs and the stories that time remebers you by? Well it won't be me, because your history doesn't concern me one bit.>>

Most people call it an oral tradition. You know that type of history passed verbally from pryde to pryde? I'll count on my elders thank you very much not some guild that prides themselves on seeing who can out drink who. But thanks in advance for the promise that you won't take that history and bastardize it. 'presh.

~Ternith, who really wasn't that bad this time. ::pats his self on the back::


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  WARCHILDE from PLAY.NET (Sin Is In)
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 17:23
Subject  Re: Proposed Langauge System (1112)
Oh yea.

*THWAP*

Ternith


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  CTRADER from PLAY.NET
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 17:39
Subject  Re: Proposed Langauge System (1113)
>*THWAP*

Ouch, way to injure my pride. Since you obviously don't have any valid points about anything why don't you go back to the conflicts folder and practice flaming.

>No one deserves anything. People EARN things.

So all the ranks that we have EARNED are what pointless? Maybe you keep your brain in your tail.

>That is like saying a 36th level barb using wolverine would have the same power of that dance that a 58th level barb has using it. Try again, your wrong.

Actually Resolve (the only offensive enchante worth anything right now) and Wolverine are not similar at all, don't even try to compare them.

>I'll count on my elders thank you very much not some guild that prides themselves on seeing who can out drink who.

And yes I can outdrink you.

-Fre'

"May the record reflect I ownz you"


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  WARCHILDE from PLAY.NET (Sin Is In)
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 17:42
Subject  Re: Proposed Langauge System (1114)
"May the record reflect I ownz you"

In your dreams deary, go back to your bottle.

~Ternith


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  CTRADER from PLAY.NET
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 17:48
Subject  Re: Proposed Langauge System (1115)
>In your dreams deary, go back to your bottle.

If you can't take the heat, unplug the heater and turn your respirator back on grand-pa.

-the player of Fre'

"Words can be as leathal as a sword to the throat" - Ancient Bardic Saying


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  WARCHILDE from PLAY.NET (Sin Is In)
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 17:57
Subject  Re: Proposed Langauge System (1116)
"Words can be as leathal as a sword to the throat" - Ancient Bardic Saying

Let me know when you are planning on using some of them.

~Ternith


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  CTRADER from PLAY.NET
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 18:05
Subject  Re: Proposed Langauge System (1117)
>You notice a husky dwarf looking up at the last post and chuckling to himself.

Sorry must have been speaking Haakish.

-Fre'

"Ignorance is bliss, and bliss is your middle name"


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  KRAZYANNEE from PLAY.NET (Angel to Some...Demon to Many)
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 18:27
Subject  Re: Proposed Langauge System (1118)
<Oh yea.

 *THWAP*

 Ternith >

Gods..why not keep that nonsense in the Prydaen folder where it's obviously thought of as "cute" or "funny" by the three or four people who post there? Here it simply comes off as immature and moronic.


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DRAGOONSEAL from PLAY.NET (Horse: Its Whats for Dinner!)
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 18:35
Subject  Re: Proposed Langauge System (1119)
Thats funny KRAZYANNEE, because I remember so many more people then that taking your points and ripping them to shreds on that whole thread you and the two others kept going on about. Thwapping started because you just couldn't stop posting about it and were tired of explaining it repeatedly to you. Just keep to yourself like you said you were going to and stop trying to start stupid conflicts.

Dragoonseal


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  CTRADER from PLAY.NET
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 18:40
Subject  Re: Proposed Langauge System (1120)
Actually it was funny.

-Fre'

"Thwapping?...lets keep it real folks"


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  KRAZYANNEE from PLAY.NET (Angel to Some...Demon to Many)
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 18:41
Subject  Re: Proposed Langauge System (1121)
<Thats funny KRAZYANNEE, because I remember so many more people then that taking your points and ripping them to shreds on that whole thread you and the two others kept going on about. Thwapping started because you just couldn't stop posting about it and were tired of explaining it repeatedly to you. Just keep to yourself like you said you were going to and stop trying to start stupid conflicts.

Dragoonseal>

And this has what, exactly, to do with how ridiculous and childish the "thwapping" is? Oh, wait. I forgot. You are incapable of rational, mature discussion. When things don't go your way, you just fall back to *Thwap.* Yeah, that's a LOT better than a good discussion.

Gods how I pity you...


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DRAGOONSEAL from PLAY.NET (Horse: Its Whats for Dinner!)
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 19:00
Subject  Re: Proposed Langauge System (1122)
>And this has what, exactly, to do with how ridiculous and childish the "thwapping" is? Oh, wait. I forgot. You are incapable of rational, mature discussion. When things don't go your way, you just fall back to *Thwap.* Yeah, that's a LOT better than a good discussion.

I agree, it is a lot better =)). Because after attempting to make you understand too many times to count, and even the GMs telling you that *gasp* you're wrong, you still don't get it, so by that point we're rather just thwap you, made rattle the brain around a little and see if something seeps into it.

Dragoonseal


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  KRAZYANNEE from PLAY.NET (Angel to Some...Demon to Many)
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 19:09
Subject  Re: Proposed Langauge System (1123)
<I agree, it is a lot better =)). Because after attempting to make you understand too many times to count, and even the GMs telling you that *gasp* you're wrong, you still don't get it, so by that point we're rather just thwap you, made rattle the brain around a little and see if something seeps into it.

Dragoonseal>

*sighs and speaks slowly so you can maybe grasp the point*

Again, this has exactly what to do with the discussion at hand? We were all enjoying a good debate on a very interesting topic, and it gets invaded by the *thwapping* contingent. Just grow up and get over yourself already.


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  RESiSTANCE_Bomb from Microsoft Gaming Zone (Jaebom)
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 19:25
Subject  Re: Proposed Langauge System (1124)
i say don't flame and 3 hours later the entire thread decays into a conflict thread!!! what's wrong with you people?! you prydaens have an excuse, you can't help it, all that fur itchin ya under the clothes you've taken to wearing since arriving here, but the rest of you aughta be used to it!! could we maybe get back on topic? i did have some stuff to say before i started wading through the flames, but have since forgotten what it was. damned short attention span...

Jaebom --i earned my ranks of scholarship and teaching, it ain't my fault quarter staff is rediculously hard to train (and it would seem broken too, i shouldn't be able to hit harder and more often with 10 ranks fewer in medium blunt, should i?)


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  ZONKAR from PLAY.NET (Perpetual Student)
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 19:49
Subject  Re: Proposed Langauge System (1125)
Heh, you guys care way too much about something as inconsequential as a proposed language learning system.

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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DRAGOONSEAL from PLAY.NET (Horse: Its Whats for Dinner!)
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 19:50
Subject  Re: Proposed Langauge System (1126)
>Again, this has exactly what to do with the discussion at hand? We were all enjoying a good debate on a very interesting topic, and it gets invaded by the *thwapping* contingent. Just grow up and get over yourself already.

Say it as slow as you like, it doesnt make you right. Yes we were, and still are having a fun debate, the thwapping comment was a humorous one, which went sailing waaay over your head, because you didn't notice that. You apparently don't understand humor, so desided to try and make an arguemnt about it (stop doing that, we're tired of your pointless arguements), any specific reason why you felt the need to try and make a conflict? There was no reason for it at all. Kindly stop posting and let us continue the debate =).

Dragoonseal


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DANTASE from PLAY.NET (Ecoles)
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 20:07
Subject  Re: Proposed Langauge System (1127)
>>Again, this has exactly what to do with the discussion at hand? We were all enjoying a good debate on a very interesting topic, and it gets invaded by the *thwapping* contingent. Just grow up and get over yourself already.

How annoying you have to be? GEEZ, KRAZYANNEE. We go through the same stuff again. You started this tangent, by saying Thwaping was infantile. Dammit. ya annoy me

Ecoles


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  CTRADER from PLAY.NET
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 20:43
Subject  Re: Proposed Langauge System (1128)
>How annoying you have to be?

Hey how about we stop flaming for a moment and get our grammar straight. Afterwards lets care for a moment that your annoyed, and then move on.

>You started this tangent, by saying Thwaping was infantile. Dammit. ya annoy me. <adds in a period

So anyone have any other opinions why there should or should not be a system to learn language?

I have down these opinions so far:

Why should we have one?:

1. Role-play factor (growing up adopted, bards/scholars) 2. Skill usage (Scholarship, teaching) 3. Something to work twards

Why shouldn't we have one?:

1. Loss of racial ability 2. Would allow people to listen in on private conversations 3. It wouldn't be possible to work the mechanics

Please add to both the lists.

And in regards to an earlier post.

>On the bard thing.

>For that incrediable of an enchante I would say that would need to be more like a 60th to 70th level enchante rather than a 30th to 40th, and would require a specific rank in both vocal music and musical lore.

>~Ternith

Maybe you should read post 1060 again, and afterwards you won't need much help removing your foot from your mouth. Nobody even mentioned an enchante, which anyways would make absolutely no sense at all.

>A Bard begins chanting in a low voice, you suddenly realize you know how to speak Illithic! The old bard smiles an odd smile and you feel an strange sense of calm wash over you.

>thwap bard

>You find yourself in a state of enlightenment, where you realize what a dolt you are for having tried thwaping him.

-Fre'


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  TURNIPKID from PLAY.NET (Drunken Goddess)
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 21:27
Subject  Re: Proposed Langauge System (1129)
>>I still think that languages help define races, and it would be taking away identity from the more unique races to please the more mundane races.

Ummm...what defines a DR race as unique or mundane? Each one of them has a very unique history all of their own and are very interesting to play. Some of them are a little bit better devloped than others, but all of them are very different. In fact I play several of them just for the joy of being to RP the different races. Sorry, but anyone who feels on an OOC level that their race is better than another race is taking this game way to seriously.

And I fail to see how languages make a race unique. Like I said before, an person who RPs a Rakash bought up in a very very Elothean household is far more culturally an Elothean than someone who picked an Elothean in the CM and never thought about it since. And this Rakash may have never met a single other Rakash in her entire life but can speak their langauge just because she was born a Rakash, yet she can't speak a word of the Elothean tounge? That just seems really silly to me on from an IC standpoint.

SC and player of


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  RESiSTANCE_Bomb from Microsoft Gaming Zone (Jaebom)
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 21:36
Subject  Re: Proposed Langauge System (1130)
actually, i think it was starsha (sp?) who mentioned an enchante

Jaebom --i still don't like the idea of it being an enchante, anyway, chances of something that broad getting scrapped are pretty high


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  TURNIPKID from PLAY.NET (Drunken Goddess)
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 21:42
Subject  Re: Proposed Langauge System (1131)
Yes I did mention the enchante <g> I just thought it would be nifty to give the Bards something to strive for after 50th and I thought understanding multiple languages would be pretty spiffy.

And I forgot about the planned Voices spell. It just goes to show that at some point the GMs were considering the whole cross-race languages thing. Or maybe the spell was delayed/scrapped because they nearly have a system in place <g>.

SC and player of


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  CTRADER from PLAY.NET
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 21:50
Subject  Re: Proposed Langauge System (1132)
>Yes I did mention the enchante <g>

Ok, definatly didn't read back far enough then. Still hold with what I said about it though, would be a little silly having an enchante to teach languages in my opinion.

-Fre'


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DRAGOONSEAL from PLAY.NET (Horse: Its Whats for Dinner!)
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 21:56
Subject  Re: Proposed Langauge System (1133)
>>I still think that languages help define races, and it would be taking away identity from the more unique races to please the more mundane races.

>Ummm...what defines a DR race as unique or mundane? Each one of them has a very unique history all of their own and are very interesting to play.

Our opinion? Which happens to be bias ;). Some people might think "Dwarfs, pah. Dwarves are over used, they're so boring, blah blah blah", but do I think that? No, I think Dwarves are very unique and would be fun to RP. If you ask one person from each of the 11 different races, which is the best race? You're most likely going to get 11 different anwsers. And as best as I can anwser the question of what defines a DR race as unique or mundane? I would say.. the players.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

And another thing to add to the laugauge debate on my part. One of the main reasons I either 1) Don't want other laugauges be able to be learned by othe races or 2) Very high scholorship requirment plus other things, like it taking a very very long time to learn the laugauge (150 scholarship doesnt mean that poof, you learn a laugauge) is because not everyone in DR are the greatest RPers. If 100 scholar was all that was required, suddenly everyone would be going around speaking other langauges. 100 scholar is _not_ hard to get, as I stated before, I almost have that much as a barb, and another barb stated the same. People won't be RPing special cases of how/why they know other langauges very much, or else 90% of the Realms would have a 'special case', because everyone would know 3 langauges. The majority would just say well I learned <insert laugauge> just because I wanted to, and have a lot of scholarship.

The problem is that 10% RP nicely, 40% RP somewhat, and then 50% just don't RP, or do very poorly at it. And I do not agree with releasing something like this for that 10% when I know at least 40% are going to be almost abusing it. Hell even I would probably jump at the chance to learn me another laugauge, and I don't even have a reason to. If I can learn another laugauge then damned if I wouldn't, it would be pointless not to wouldnt it?

There is a difference between a 'need', and a 'want'.

Dragoonseal, once again going to bed, will debate tomorrow.


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  TURNIPKID from PLAY.NET (Drunken Goddess)
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 22:01
Subject  Re: Proposed Langauge System (1134)
>>Ok, definatly didn't read back far enough then. Still hold with what I said about it though, would be a little silly having an enchante to teach languages in my opinion.

Never said it taught langauges. Just meant that the magic of the enchante would allow the Bard singing, and only the Bard singing, to temporarily understand langauges as the enchante was going on. Bard still couldn't speak in the langauge and it would be rather obvious when they are doing it, possiblely rather mana intensive as well. A singing bard can't exactly sneak up on ya.

SC


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  TURNIPKID from PLAY.NET (Drunken Goddess)
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 22:13
Subject  Re: Proposed Langauge System (1135)
>Our opinion?...And as best as I can anwser the question of what defines a DR race as unique or mundane? I would say.. the players.

Just as long as you understand it only your personal opinion <g>. My point is that each race IS very unique if you take the time to learn a little bit about them. Everyone person I've met who really RPs their race well is very interesting. Just because one floats your boat and the other does nothing for ya doesn't mean the race is better, it means that you happen to like the aspects of one race more than the other. I, for one, would never play a Skra because Skras just don't interest me but I wouldn't say that Skras are are mundane, just different :-)

SC the PC and player of


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  TURNIPKID from PLAY.NET (Drunken Goddess)
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 22:16
Subject  To all the people participating in the language threads... (1136)
A sincere thank you for not letting these threads break down into something overly childish or name calling. Best time I've had debating something with people in awhile :-)

SC and player of


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  RESiSTANCE_Bomb from Microsoft Gaming Zone (Jaebom)
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 22:19
Subject  Re: Proposed Langauge System (1137)
you realize use elemental, which is poor in most areas for something that constantly taps into mana, right? it's not like a mage who can use cambrinth and raise the mana that they are able to use in any given place, a bard is completely dependant upon the ambient mana, and quite frankly, it's hard to find places where we can play some of our more mana intensive ones already, including the one to raise the ambient mana in a room (someone out there know just how much mana is needed for nexus? i can't remember exactly, but i know it's too high to be of any real use to a bard other than for learning)

Jaebom --enchantes are good, just not this one


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  RESiSTANCE_Bomb from Microsoft Gaming Zone (Jaebom)
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 22:22
Subject  Re: To all the people participating in the language threads... (1138)
um...thank you i guess...always enjoyed a good debate...name-calling only serves to enfuriate me into utter defiance towards the other person. you prove me wrong, i'll accept it, no problem

Jaebom --stop on by the bard guild sometime, we can get sloshed together


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  CTRADER from PLAY.NET
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 22:43
Subject  Re: To all the people participating in the language threads... (1140)
>*THWAP*

Ouch, definatly gunna have a good cry after that one.

Wait....no I'm not. And SC thanks for correcting me, it's good to get ones facts straight when dealing with an utter moron. <drink a hearty sip of thwap away>

-Fre'

"Goes down ohh so smooth"


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DANTASE from PLAY.NET (Ecoles)
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 22:44
Subject  Re: Proposed Langauge System (1141)
<<Maybe you should read post 1060 again, and afterwards you won't need much help removing your foot from your mouth. Nobody even mentioned an enchante, which anyways would make absolutely no sense at all.>>

CTRADER, I think you owe Ternith an apology, as in fact you were the one that stuck their foot in their mouth, but in your case your big toe is poking out the other way.


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  TURNIPKID from PLAY.NET (Drunken Goddess)
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 22:46
Subject  Re: To all the people participating in the language threads... (1142)
::sigh:: Hate it when I speak to soon ::chuckles and runs for cover::

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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  WARCHILDE from PLAY.NET (Sin Is In)
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 23:15
Subject  Re: To all the people participating in the language threads... (1143)
<<it's good to get ones facts straight >>

Your right it is. You should try it some times, ya fricking idiot.

~Ternith, who has changed his mind and going to post if the BM who TofC's vio's him isn't going to do the same to this foolish wench.


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  RESiSTANCE_Bomb from Microsoft Gaming Zone (Jaebom)
On  Dec 17, 2001 at 23:44
Subject  Re: To all the people participating in the language threads... (1144)
and that had what to do with this thread?

Jaebom --confused


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  BLUR from PLAY.NET (Refugee from the Unknown Lands)
On  Dec 18, 2001 at 00:38
Subject  Re: Language (since that's what this thread is really about!) (1145)
It sure shows that I've not been around all day, but I refuse to let this go.

<<Respectfully Humm,

Loq, Little to none of your post had anything to do with any aspects of respect. Thing like....

<<I'm sorry if it "cramps your style" to have to go inside and lock a door. Cry me a river.

<<The Marines are elite only because they hold themselves above everyone else. Speaking as a soldier here, they're fulla hot air. ::wink::

<<The difference between SpecOps and the Marines is ANYONE can be a Marine.

..... are comments that are quite disrespectful from my point of view. The "::wink::" doesn't really take the edge off of it, either.

I used these examples as references, and I suspect you do realize their validity. If you wish to go into an "Army vs. Marines" or Green Beret vs. Recon Ranger or Seals" issue, I am quite willing, but I do feel that this is not the proper forum.

<<If the GMs held the same train of thought as you do, we would not even have Prydaen. Food for thought

Here, I would like to ask a question.. "Were the new races brought to Elanthia due to the insistance of any segment of players that post on the Boards?" Honestly, I don''t know, but I would like to know if your rebuttal is valid or just "clever". I would really like the feed back about this, too. If so, fine, but if this is not the case then yous rebuttal is quite weak.

<<If I want a private conversation in the real world, I don't simply start speaking in Spanish. Or Romanian, even. I go and find somewhere private and hold my conversation there. If you remove the chance of being overheard, you remove the risk of being overheard.

I would like to remind you that just because you do something a certain way, that does not mean that everyone must respond in kind. How your characters act is your concern, but Loq has yet to prove himself as enough of a role model to Humm that he would even begin to emulate him. Not that he can't, just that he hasn't, yet. Feel free to sit in closets, but don't bother trying to tell me how my characters should act in like situations. If you think that Prydaen "aloofness" and "elitism" is bad, take it up with the GMs who designed them with these attitudes in mind. No sense shooting the messengers, as they say.

I would like to point out that if Humm is somewhere alone with other prydaens who are speaking in their native tongue and a person of another race wanders by, Humm is not about to go to someplace else. To expect that is even more unreasonable than thinking that anyone talking in a language that you do not understand is speaking about you.

Also, you might wish to take exception to anyone who speaks in their racial language in public. At least, I could view you as consistent, because you and a few others do seem to be singling out Prydaens in this thread. When Humm was at Stone Clan to help defend the interests of his dwarven friends and acquaintances, I noticed many conversations in Haakish. Does Humm object? No way. It is their right to do so, and He would stand to defend their right to speak their tongue almost as diligently as he would for those of his own race.

There have been many time that I knew for fact that a person was in the company of the Pryde, which Humm is a member of, solely for the opportunity to listen in and spy for another. I could have left and conducted business elsewhere in a better controlled area, but elected to remain to be spied upon, instead. I felt that thwarting the "spy" in such a manner would be petty, expecially since there was never anything to hide. Only the comfort of speaking in the native tongue for RP purposes was the issue. I would think that those who are so concerned with role play issues would appreciate this, but it seems that some are only concerned with their own RP issues, and anothers concerns that might oppose them are viewed as rude or absolutely invalid.

Michael, aka Humm "Proud Ears" Breaux


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  BLUR from PLAY.NET (Refugee from the Unknown Lands)
On  Dec 18, 2001 at 01:21
Subject  Re: Proposed Langauge System (1146)
<<<bards get their last thing besides titles at 36th, why would anyone wanna go higher than that other than titles? 60th is a circle rarely striven for, and generally concidered to have no point.

If this were an ability given to Bards of 60th circle, then you would have a reason to get to 60th circle, wouldn't you? <chuckles>

If it were an ability that were being given to bards at all, why make it easy pickins? To me, your argument just means you want something, and are willing to bully a way to get it. Hmmmm. Good point though. Why bother to earn something if you can just argue long enough or loud enough (reference to the all capps statements) and get the same results?

Michael, aka Humm "Proud Ears" Breaux


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  BLUR from PLAY.NET (Refugee from the Unknown Lands)
On  Dec 18, 2001 at 01:29
Subject  Re: Proposed Langauge System (1147)
<<Ummm...what defines a DR race as unique or mundane?

SC, you do have a very good point. May I take this moment to amend my previous statement to read "I still think that languages help define races, and it would be taking away identity from the more unique races to please the more mundane players.

Thank you,

Michael, aka Humm "Proud Ears" Breaux


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  BLUR from PLAY.NET (Refugee from the Unknown Lands)
On  Dec 18, 2001 at 01:37
Subject  Re: Proposed Langauge System (1148)
Starsha, I believe your proposal is quite interesting. If I were to suggest any amendments to you idea, I would not only require certain levels of scholarship from the person learning a language, but I would require equal or better ranks of teaching from the one who proposes to instruct the person who is to learn the languages ni question.

Especially with that amendment, I think it is a well though out post.

I also like the Enchante idea for Bards. Both have merit. In either case, the more paranoid types would have someone to hire so that they know for fact that they are not getting laughed at behind their backs, the poor little sausages.

Michael, aka Humm "Proud Ears" Breaux.


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  SAILORPLUTO from PLAY.NET
On  Dec 18, 2001 at 02:24
Subject  Re: Proposed Langauge System (1149)
I think Ilithi and Hakaash should be swapped in difficulty, but other then that I kinda like the idea...I agree with the teaching req too.

~Daergoth


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  MOONTOUCHED from PLAY.NET (Official Board Monkey)
On  Dec 18, 2001 at 08:49
Subject  Re: Language (since that's what this thread is really about!) (1150)
Michael/Humm,

<<Loq, Little to none of your post had anything to do with any aspects of respect>>

Having read my postings in the past, you of all people should realize the sarcasm implicit in that word. It's foreshadowing on my part (IE "If you don't want to see someone get ripped into, skip this post.").

<<..... are comments that are quite disrespectful from my point of view.>>

I completely understand. I make certain that when someone brings it up over a beer, they end up with beer all over them. The intended effect (throwing your guard off) worked, however, and we've gotten to the true issues at hand (yeah, strategy. Who'd've thunk a Ranger would've used that?).

<<If you wish to go into an "Army vs. Marines" or Green Beret vs. Recon Ranger or Seals" issue, I am quite willing, but I do feel that this is not the proper forum.>>

Michael, you're a soldier. There is no more honorable profession in the world. Inter-branch rivalry is just something that comes with the territory. Marines may be loudmouths and braggarts, but they're still soldiers.. and when the shooting starts, I will still count on them to come get my can out of the fire zone (okay, so they typically just increase the conflammagration, but whatever -- I still find the chance to sneak out of my hiding place).

Two totally different approaches to soldiery. Any comparison is moot, since the parallels are too far between to draw an accurate cross-section (this is not to mean I am diavowed of this argument, however).

<<Here, I would like to ask a question.. "Were the new races brought to Elanthia due to the insistance of any segment of players that post on the Boards?" Honestly, I don''t know, but I would like to know if your rebuttal is valid or just "clever". I would really like the feed back about this, too. If so, fine, but if this is not the case then yous rebuttal is quite weak.>>

Actually, the GMs more or less ignored the negative backlash on the whole thing, as I recall. And there was plenty, mind you. Shalnhh and Rowan (who were more or less responsible for the effort) pushed on despite the naysaying and eventually came up with the four new races. Apparently whether or not they'd actually be released was up in the air for a while, as the SGMs were trying to "feel out" the general player approval of the project (hard to do when the boards tends to overrepresent the vocal negative minority). Honestly, I think if the general leaning in GM thinking had been what yours has presented itself to be, Prydaen would still be sitting on a shelf. Along with Rakash, Gnomes and Kaldar. I, personally, feel you're doing everyone a disservice with the incredibly selfish bent of your stance. Inevitably, people will be cramped by new releases. I know not everyone wants to feel like they need to go somewhere private to make a conversation private, but everyone realizes it's the truth. There are, of course, options. Speaking in tongues, using codewords and a pre-agreed scramble. Whatever. There are also private areas that are outdoors. Matter of fact, I'm sitting in a room in Prime that probably hasn't seen another player in a year.

<<I would like to remind you that just because you do something a certain way, that does not mean that everyone must respond in kind. How your characters act is your concern, but Loq has yet to prove himself as enough of a role model to Humm that he would even begin to emulate him. Not that he can't, just that he hasn't, yet. Feel free to sit in closets, but don't bother trying to tell me how my characters should act in like situations.>>

My character would probably never deign to waste his precious few words on something so trivial anyway. He's well aware that time and circumstance are the best teachers, and he's willing to let them do the work for him. I make no commands, demands or anything of the like when something else (logic and common sense, inthis case) will do it for me.

<<If you think that Prydaen "aloofness" and "elitism" is bad, take it up with the GMs who designed them with these attitudes in mind. No sense shooting the messengers, as they say.>>

Oh, I do. Every time I get the chance I rail the design team for their complete lack of foresight and wisdom on this front. As a matter of fact, I think it was quite possibly the worst decision ever made by Shalnhh and Rowan, and that includes letting Itharr live (and that must be some sort of sin, I swear).

<<I would like to point out that if Humm is somewhere alone with other prydaens who are speaking in their native tongue and a person of another race wanders by, Humm is not about to go to someplace else. To expect that is even more unreasonable than thinking that anyone talking in a language that you do not understand is speaking about you.>>

Circumstance will dictate Humm's actions, not me. As they say, "do so at your own risk." I, personally, expect nothing but a lesson from time and circumstance.

<<Also, you might wish to take exception to anyone who speaks in their racial language in public.>>

I don't. I'm not paranoid. If you're talking about me, fine. If I catch wind of it, and it's negative, then you're in for a rumble. ::wink::

<<At least, I could view you as consistent, because you and a few others do seem to be singling out Prydaens in this thread.>>

Prydaen singled themselves out. There was no outside help on that front.

<<When Humm was at Stone Clan to help defend the interests of his dwarven friends and acquaintances, I noticed many conversations in Haakish. Does Humm object? No way. It is their right to do so, and He would stand to defend their right to speak their tongue almost as diligently as he would for those of his own race.>>

Nobody is trying to deny a race their racial tongue. Far be it. But had Humm been able to understand and speak Haakish changed their conversation any? I seriously doubt it.

<<There have been many time that I knew for fact that a person was in the company of the Pryde, which Humm is a member of, solely for the opportunity to listen in and spy for another. I could have left and conducted business elsewhere in a better controlled area, but elected to remain to be spied upon, instead. I felt that thwarting the "spy" in such a manner would be petty, expecially since there was never anything to hide.>>

Then it's moot. The risk taken is yours, and what's the difference if the interloper is Human and not Prydaen? None, I should think.

<<Only the comfort of speaking in the native tongue for RP purposes was the issue. I would think that those who are so concerned with role play issues would appreciate this, but it seems that some are only concerned with their own RP issues, and anothers concerns that might oppose them are viewed as rude or absolutely invalid.>>

So speak Prydaenese. Nobody's stopping you. You'll just have to keep in mind that the sly-looking Rakash in the corner may understand what you're saying now. This is something that is an accepted facet of real life and, more to the point, an integral point of conflict (good and bad) in role-playing games in general. DR is poorer for its absence, currently.

Loq


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  MOONTOUCHED from PLAY.NET (Official Board Monkey)
On  Dec 18, 2001 at 08:57
Subject  Re: Proposed Langauge System (1151)
I appreciate that this is a day late, but..

Gamgweth, Gerenshuge, Ilithic and Haakish all made very large contributions to the Common tongue. They should all be on the first tier. Olvi and Toggish are relatively simple languages, once you grasp the basic concept (it's food for both ::duck::).

Personally?

First tier: Gamgweth, Gerenshuge, Ilithic, Haakish, Olvi, Toggish.

Second tier: Rakash, S'Kra Mur, Prydaen and Gorbesh.

Also, I think it would be unreasonable to expect everyone to be able to speak every language properly. Anyone who's not S'Kra Mur, for instance, is probably going to have a rough time with all the hissing and chirring in the language.

The learning system remains fine, but frankly, IMHO, output and productivity should still be covered by Charisma and Intelligence.

Charisma for speaking, Intelligence for listening.

First language at 100 ranks, unless it's 2nd tier, then it's 150 ranks. Every additional language thereafter requires 25 less ranks to learn, cumulative, to a minimum of 50 ranks.

As a final note, it may be worthwhile to consider building non-PC languages into your chart, as we may well encounter goblins speaking Goblinoid and trolls chatting in Trollish if the system comes through.

Loq


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  YIMMY from PLAY.NET (The Happy Wanderer)
On  Dec 18, 2001 at 08:58
Subject  Re: Proposed Langauge System (1152)
While we're on this topic..... A few comments before I give my thoughts on this proposed system....

First: I'm still miffed that Elves have to speak 'Ilithic' The elven homelands are all over the map. Only Shard is in Ilithi and that's mostly an Elothean city... but they get their own language... If I'm not mistaken the Elves call their language Chui'lana... I think this was either a big oversight or a 'just don't care much' from the GM's.

Second: I was around when the 'new' races were introduced. It was pretty funny. Around November there was a big push on the boards with new races suggestions etc... A GM at the time said.. NO... uncategorically no races planned. We got them in February. Go figure that one out... so those of you pushing for new guilds, you never know.

Third: The idea of a Bard enchante to help UNDERSTAND (not learn) someone speaking in another language is a really good one. Very in-game and makes complete sense. How else is a bard to get the feel for a city or an Inn in a foreign province to cater their performance. A few Bard Enchantes don't take much mana to keep going... the Grace and the Eye (especially the eye) can be kept going almost indefinitely so an enchante of this type wouldn't necesssarily be hard to keep going - with a high enough skill. I would suggest making it a little more mana intensive than the eye so the bards with better harness and music lore can keep it running in lower mana areas. Hmm.. opens up a whole thought about finding a 'null' area to have a private conversations ::grin::

This is one of the first fairly well thought out systems of learning languages I've read.... Sure it has some bugs and could be tweaked here or there but at least it's something. Now stop taking pot shots at each other and iron out some more details. I'm sure (as I can be) that some GM somewhere has been mulling over a learning language system. (They, too, are not stupid) The more suggestions we give the better it is for them.

Go ahead flame away.. I don't read them anyway.


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  BLUR from PLAY.NET (Refugee from the Unknown Lands)
On  Dec 18, 2001 at 11:19
Subject  Re: Language (since that's what this thread is really about!) (1153)
<<Having read my postings in the past, you of all people should realize the sarcasm implicit in that word. It's foreshadowing on my part (IE "If you don't want to see someone get ripped into, skip this post.").

Hmmmmmm. After a few ponderings I must admit that although I have read your post as I have read everyone's in this folder (and a few other), I can't say that your's have stood out as memorable, sorry. I'll keep your words in mind for the future, though.

<<Prydaen singled themselves out. There was no outside help on that front.

I completely disagree.

About the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines issue, as I said before, I do feel that this is not the forum to be discussing the U.S. military forces, except in using them as I had at first, a mere analogy. My only comment is that I would appreciate it that you never refer to me as a soldier, again. I am what I am, not what you say I am.

As for the rest of your post, I see no rhyme of reason except possibly your trying to prove that you are more clever or more on top of things that another might be. I base this mostly on my feelings that in your posts, you sure pat yourself on the back alot. You do hold yourself in the highest of esteem, and it useless trying to discuss much with someone who's biggest concern is feeling that they are "right" of "smarter" than the rest. Your beer spilling did nothing to move me or anyone towards the topics at hand, but have actually distracted from me them those topics.

If you actually start discussing the matters in a rational matter I may change my mind, but until then I feel you are arguing merely for the sake of arguing. I would appreciate it that you talk about the matters at hand, instead of your exercises in self aggrandizement.

 Until then........ Buh Bye.

Michael, aka "Humm Proud Ears" Breaux


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  NMADISON from PLAY.NET
On  Dec 18, 2001 at 11:40
Subject  Re: Language (since that's what this thread is really about!) (1154)
Languages should be learnable. It is IC. It is realistic. The GMs shall ultimately decide what the requirements will be. I've got faith that they will make them quite fair when they implement this. I'm sure scholarship will play a large role in this matter. It is not up to the players to decide if languages will be learnable. The argument "Well, we don't want anyone to hear our private conversation" doesn't hold water.

>If you actually start discussing the matters in a rational matter I may change my mind, but until then I feel you are arguing merely for the sake of arguing.

This is bordering on flaming. Posts are already going to be pulled in this thread... it degraded pretty quickly.

-Karentil's Player


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  WARCHILDE from PLAY.NET (Sin Is In)
On  Dec 18, 2001 at 11:40
Subject  Re: Language (since that's what this thread is really about!) (1155)
<<Until then........ Buh Bye.>>

ROFL

<<Marines may be loudmouths and braggarts>>

 If you were refering to the term of braggart as someone who speaks of or asserts with excessive pride, then you would have hit the nail on the head. Because all those that have placed there dress blues on have every right to feel themselves elite. They have proved it.
 However, you use the term braggart in a derogatory sense and for that your can take your defination of the finest group of fighting men and women anyone could ever serve with and shove it.

~Ternith


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  WARCHILDE from PLAY.NET (Sin Is In)
On  Dec 18, 2001 at 11:42
Subject  Re: Language (since that's what this thread is really about!) (1156)
<<This is bordering on flaming. Posts are already going to be pulled in this thread... it degraded pretty quickly.>>

Where the heck were you last night. You missed it I was trying to be nice.

~Ternith


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  NMADISON from PLAY.NET
On  Dec 18, 2001 at 11:44
Subject  Re: Language (since that's what this thread is really about!) (1157)
>Where the heck were you last night. You missed it I was trying to be nice.

Hehe. I've been reading since yesterday. And you were doing a good job, too! Until... hmm... post 1143. *ducks* Hehe.

-Karentil's Player


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  SCYTHA from PLAY.NET (Shokuyou nano?)
On  Dec 18, 2001 at 11:45
Subject  Re: Language (since that's what this thread is really about!) (1158)
>Prydaen singled themselves out. There was no outside help on that front.

You probobly hear prydaens disagreen the loudest because they would be the most hurt by new languages. Prydaens of course have the superior attitude, and many(most) have a distrust or at least a mild distain for furless. To achieve that racial charectaristic we can use our language to exclude. You may not like that very much, however if all races had the same values and beliefs then DR's culture would be pretty dry.

>So speak Prydaenese. Nobody's stopping you. You'll just have to keep in mind that the sly-looking Rakash in the corner may understand what you're saying now. This is something that is an accepted facet of real life and, more to the point, an integral point of conflict (good and bad) in role-playing games in general. DR is poorer for its absence, currently.

No, it's probobly better off with it's absense. Other games have language learning systems and racial languages. I have played at least one that does. In the one I played, I knew 19 languages by the time I quit it, because they became so easy to learn as the game expanded. They were essentialy used only as novelties because of that. I think it would be very sad to lose that ability for races to communicate only inter-racialy in a public area. Some races RP would be hurt more than others, like Prydaen and probobly Elves, since they also consider themselves fairly superior, I think.

The only purpose those languages exist is to exclude, or perhaps to traditial ceremonies in. If someone doesn't want to alienate you, then they'll use common. It's a very simple idea really. If you want to destroy the ability to exclude other races, then learning languages is the way to do it, but it is my opinion that that would defeat the purposes of having a language when the concept of "common" already exists. Perhaps if they implement language learning they should simply remove the common language, then it would be a meaninful endevor. Otherwise, it's simply a RP tool that would be mostly be abused, harm the Roleplay and unity of some or all races, and waste the GM's time.

-Kitrinx


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  SCYTHA from PLAY.NET (Shokuyou nano?)
On  Dec 18, 2001 at 11:49
Subject  Re: Language (since that's what this thread is really about!) (1159)
Additionaly, what makes you think that all races would let their traditional languages be learned by others? Some more traditional prydaens would be so insulted by having a furless speak their language that they might feel it was nessiscary to remove their tongue or simply kill them. I can imagine some races would mine more than others, but I can't see that every race would simply allow outsiders to speak their languages without a certain level of hostility.

-Kitrinx


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  WARCHILDE from PLAY.NET (Sin Is In)
On  Dec 18, 2001 at 11:53
Subject  Re: Language (since that's what this thread is really about!) (1160)
<<I've been reading since yesterday. And you were doing a good job, too! Until... hmm... post 1143.>>

*chuckles*

Well she shouldn't have continued being stupid. I still haven't figured out what this ownzed crap she was talking about was. She obviously has never seen what this truely means. You would figure though a bard (tounge in cheek) would at least have a moderate vocabulary on which to draw from. Sad thing is (you have heard this before although I take it back from you) I had heard good things about Fre' and even respected her while I was a bard. Ahh well you learn new things everyday I suppose and I got to learn yesterday she is a looney.

~Ternith


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  WARCHILDE from PLAY.NET (Sin Is In)
On  Dec 18, 2001 at 11:54
Subject  Re: Language (since that's what this thread is really about!) (1161)
<<Some more traditional prydaens would be so insulted by having a furless speak their language that they might feel it was nessiscary to remove their tongue or simply kill them.>>

hehe.....ponders....oh yea that would actually be a beautiful thing.

~Ternith


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  NMADISON from PLAY.NET
On  Dec 18, 2001 at 11:55
Subject  Re: Language (since that's what this thread is really about!) (1162)
>Additionaly, what makes you think that all races would let their traditional languages be learned by others? Some more traditional prydaens would be so insulted by having a furless speak their language that they might feel it was nessiscary to remove their tongue or simply kill them.

That's a very good point! Inevitably, someone would teach a non-Prydaen how to speak their language. Requiring the teacher to have so much teaching (or other reqs) to teach it would remove the largest potential of abuse - rolling up a Prydaen and having them teach Prydaenese to your regular character.

As for removing tongues or murder - not totally a valid RP choice with regards to policy (unfortunately), but would be lots of fun to play out that situation, I'd imagine (assuming nobody reports).

Interchange Prydaen with whatever race you want.

-Karentil's Player


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  SCYTHA from PLAY.NET (Shokuyou nano?)
On  Dec 18, 2001 at 12:43
Subject  Re: Language (since that's what this thread is really about!) (1163)
>As for removing tongues or murder - not totally a valid RP choice with regards to policy (unfortunately), but would be lots of fun to play out that situation, I'd imagine (assuming nobody reports).

That's the point. 90% of the people out there would probobly report and/or call the roleplayer a snert, fanatic, etc. I'd rather have the "implied prohibition" of learning it, since policy wouldn't allow that to be roleplayed properly. It's also unfortuate that most people of every race don't roleplay out their racial culture, and thus wouldn't care to enforce that kind of thing IC. That 1% of the time that it's actualy roleplayed out nicely isn't worth the 99% of the time that it's a headache.

-Kitrinx


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  TURNIPKID from PLAY.NET (Drunken Goddess)
On  Dec 18, 2001 at 13:35
Subject  Re: Language (since that's what this thread is really about!) (1164)
>>Additionaly, what makes you think that all races would let their traditional languages be learned by others?

I need someone's permission to learn a langauge? I can't just go into a library, pick up a book and learn it if I want to? Or find a random friend to teach it to me?

Think of what you're saying, you telling me that every single race in the realms is literally too dumb to learn each other's languages

And I don't know, I've never ever met anyone who objected to someone speaking their language. I consider learning a forgein tounge to be a sign of respect for that people's culture.

SC and player of


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  ARCHANGEL4 from PLAY.NET (Me-who with an exactly-what?)
On  Dec 18, 2001 at 13:44
Subject  Re: Language (since that's what this thread is really about!) (1165)
<<You probobly hear prydaens disagreen the loudest because they would be the most hurt by new languages. Prydaens of course have the superior attitude, and many(most) have a distrust or at least a mild distain for furless. To achieve that racial charectaristic we can use our language to exclude. You may not like that very much, however if all races had the same values and beliefs then DR's culture would be pretty dry.>>

S'kra also have the superior attitude and many have an intense distrust and/or dislike for "smoothskins". Granted, in Prime this is not as apparent as it is in Plat. There are very few S'kra in Plat, but the ones that I have met have been extremely clannish and tend to speak S'kra a great deal. I have also played a S'kra in Prime for a few years and did not notice half as much of "S'kra pride" for lack of a better term. ::chuckles::

Oddly enough, the Prydaen in Plat do not seem nearly as clannish as the S'kra. Maybe because there are many Prydaen, or alternately I am just not aware of the Prydaen goings-on since I don't play one.

I do feel that if learning another race's language is going to be possible it should be VERY difficult, and at different levels of learning it should be possible to misinterpret what is actually being said. I think to make it easy would be a great injustice to those players who use the language as an rp tool and not just as "hey this is cool I can speak a different language!"

Solyn's Player


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  WARCHILDE from PLAY.NET (Sin Is In)
On  Dec 18, 2001 at 14:13
Subject  Re: Language (since that's what this thread is really about!) (1166)
<<I can't just go into a library, pick up a book and learn it if I want to>>

If your goal is to learn to write it yes you could probally do that. If you want to hold a conversation with someone whose primary language you will completly butcher by trying to "commonize" its pronunciations no.

~Ternith


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  CTRADER from PLAY.NET
On  Dec 18, 2001 at 14:13
Subject  Re: Language (since that's what this thread is really about!) (1167)
>Well she shouldn't have continued being stupid. I still haven't figured out what this ownzed crap she was talking about was. She obviously has never seen what this truely means. You would figure though a bard (tounge in cheek) would at least have a moderate vocabulary on which to draw from. Sad thing is (you have heard this before although I take it back from you) I had heard good things about Fre' and even respected her while I was a bard. Ahh well you learn new things everyday I suppose and I got to learn yesterday she is a looney.

*falls over laughing*

<<it's good to get ones facts straight >>

>Your right it is. You should try it some times, ya fricking idiot.

Mother was right, being called a fricking idiot does hurt. Especially when your listening to someone who posts IM messages on the thief boards. Go back to your hole and realize a few things. For one the fact that your in denial of your own mental capacity, and number two that I'm not a she.

*Adjusts HIS belt*

-Signed Fre'

"And don't worry your stupid reply will make you feel better about yourself, at least for a little while."


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  WARCHILDE from PLAY.NET (Sin Is In)
On  Dec 18, 2001 at 14:17
Subject  Re: Language (since that's what this thread is really about!) (1168)
ROFL

You are a fricking idiot, read what was actually posted ya chode.

<<I'm not a she.>>

You keep on thinking that.

~Ternith


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  CTRADER from PLAY.NET
On  Dec 18, 2001 at 14:18
Subject  Re: Language (since that's what this thread is really about!) (1169)
Doesn't that feel better now?

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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  WARCHILDE from PLAY.NET (Sin Is In)
On  Dec 18, 2001 at 14:20
Subject  Re: Language (since that's what this thread is really about!) (1170)
Does it get better that a conflict not being ended on a non-conflict board?

I submit that it does not, so yes. It feels wonderful.

~Ternith


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DRAGOONSEAL from PLAY.NET (Horse: Its Whats for Dinner!)
On  Dec 18, 2001 at 14:52
Subject  Re: Language (since that's what this thread is really about!) (1171)
>read what was actually posted ya chode.

Heeeey. I just wanna take a second to make it clear that I was the first one to call her a chode, he stole my word for her =).

Dragoonseal


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  CRYPTOR from PLAY.NET (dimly flickering)
On  Dec 18, 2001 at 14:58
Subject  Re: Language (since that's what this thread is really about!) (1172)
To play devils advocate on racial languages, I believe that the Kiowa Apache's language was never learned outside of their own tribe. This was due to it being an extraordinarily complicated language and thus, it would require the devotion of one's career as a linguist to learn it. The fact that the tribe has always been very, very small and that there have not necessarily been tribesman willing to cooperate in such an education made learning it impossible. Even the Comanche with whom the Kiowa lived for generations never learned to converse with them. They instead used an intricate system of hand signals, a feature common to many plains Indian tribes as it worked over the large distances involved on the plains where verbal communication was impractical.

-Gheist (in-between titles)


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Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  WARCHILDE from PLAY.NET (Sin Is In)
On  Dec 18, 2001 at 15:10
Subject  Re: Language (since that's what this thread is really about!) (1173)
<<-POST by Gheist>>

Speak on brother.

~Ternith


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  WARCHILDE from PLAY.NET (Sin Is In)
On  Dec 18, 2001 at 15:11
Subject  Re: Language (since that's what this thread is really about!) (1174)
Yea but you stole my word, hehe. And besides it fits her nicely.

~Ternith


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  WARCHILDE from PLAY.NET (Sin Is In)
On  Dec 18, 2001 at 16:02
Subject  man... (1175)
Great someone went and tattled..

~Ternith who sits back and waits for it...


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  MOONTOUCHED from PLAY.NET (Official Board Monkey)
On  Dec 18, 2001 at 16:53
Subject  Re: Language (since that's what this thread is really about!) (1176)
<<To play devils advocate on racial languages, I believe that the Kiowa Apache's language was never learned outside of their own tribe.>>

Most of the same Apache radio operators speak English with very heavy inflection. Like I said, I would not mind Prydaen claiming Prydaenese as a very distinct language if they all spoke with with heavy inflections, but most of them speak perfect Common.

More to the point, Rakash and Prydaen have lived in close proximity for centuries. It stands to reason that Rakash scouts know enough Prydaen to get by, in a pinch. So the precedent is very likely there, it's just not available to players currently (which is fine, we're pretty lenient about these things. I didn't ride a horse for five years, after all).

If you're worried about the language system becoming trite, keep in mind it's going to take a lot of effort to master more than a few languages.

Comparing DR to your run-of-the-mill MUD is like comparing your Chevette to a Chevelle. Sure, the name is similar, but everything else is different. Considering I can think of at least 30 plausible languages in DR, I think it's safe to say that someone learning 5 wouldn't be too bad from a balance standpoint. My uncle speaks nearly thirty languages (most fluently -- about five of which are African tribal languages -- very secular) ::shrug:: It's what happens when you spend your life travelling around the world.

Loq


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  WARCHILDE from PLAY.NET (Sin Is In)
On  Dec 18, 2001 at 16:55
Subject  Re: Language (since that's what this thread is really about!) (1177)
<<More to the point, Rakash and Prydaen have lived in close proximity for centuries. It stands to reason that Rakash scouts know enough Prydaen to get by, in a pinch.>>

Yet another very good point.

~mind of Ternith


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  SCYTHA from PLAY.NET (Shokuyou nano?)
On  Dec 18, 2001 at 17:08
Subject  Re: Language (since that's what this thread is really about!) (1178)
>More to the point, Rakash and Prydaen have lived in close proximity for centuries. It stands to reason that Rakash scouts know enough Prydaen to get by, in a pinch.

>Yet another very good point.

Not really. The prydaen Claw of Azca had to be gifted a magical device by the gods in order to communicate with the Rakash. There's nothing to indicate that we were ever able to learn each others languages at all.

Also, in response to someone saying that they could learn languages from a book: I know that the prydaen at least do almost all their history and lore oraly. We don't write much at all. You'd have a really tough time finding a book in prydaen, especialy so far from our homelands. Gortogs, gnomes, kaldars, and rakash probobly have very few books in their languages in the provinces either.

-Kitrinx


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  TURNIPKID from PLAY.NET (Drunken Goddess)
On  Dec 18, 2001 at 17:08
Subject  Re: Language (since that's what this thread is really about!) (1179)
>>S'kra also have the superior attitude and many have an intense distrust and/or dislike for "smoothskins".

And traditionally Elotheans think that every race besides their own is mentally inferior. We all have excuses for IC racism.

People this isn't a questions of your own character's IC racism, this is about expanding RP in a way that can be incredibly beneficial. If you want to RP a person who will cut out the tounge of anyone they hear speaking their race's language, fine. But conversely if I wish to play a diplomat who learns to speak other race's languages fluently because I see speaking to them in their own tounge as a sign of respect I should have the right to do that as well.

I really fail to see how learning to speak another race's language is something can be abused. If an Elf is sitting in and listening in on a Pyrdean meeting, he or she better damn well be invited, and if he or she was invited then why the need to hide the subject of the meeting? Unless you are being extremely rude behind the Elf's back, in which case you better hope that the the Elf's player didn't roll up a Pyrdean in order to solve the OOC problem of people talking behind his/her back. I rather see the IC ability to learn languages than see the inability to understand languages solved in an OOC manner. And if someone is going to burst into a race meeting with the sole intention of making a jackass of themself it's not going to matter whether or not they speak your language <g>.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Being a member of a race DOES NOT make you a member of a culture. Seriously, who would even the most traditional of Pyrdaens have more respect for? A Pyrdean who shoots an Elder in the chest, or the Dwarven empath who puts herself in mortal peril in order to save the Elder's life? Who would you rather have a conversation with when the day is through?

SC and player of


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  WARCHILDE from PLAY.NET (Sin Is In)
On  Dec 18, 2001 at 17:14
Subject  Re: Language (since that's what this thread is really about!) (1180)
<<A Pyrdean who shoots an Elder in the chest>>

There are no prydaens that shoot elders in the chest, but good point.

~Ternith


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  TURNIPKID from PLAY.NET (Drunken Goddess)
On  Dec 18, 2001 at 17:16
Subject  Re: Language (since that's what this thread is really about!) (1181)
>>Also, in response to someone saying that they could learn languages from a book: I know that the prydaen at least do almost all their history and lore oraly. We don't write much at all. You'd have a really tough time finding a book in prydaen, especialy so far from our homelands. Gortogs, gnomes, kaldars, and rakash probobly have very few books in their languages in the provinces either.

Yet if they never publish an IC book in DR on the Pyrdaen language, you players will never be able to know what it's supposed to sound like <g> And there are quite a few books on Pyrdaen culture already despite the fact that most of the history is oral.

>>Not really. The prydaen Claw of Azca had to be gifted a magical device by the gods in order to communicate with the Rakash. There's nothing to indicate that we were ever able to learn each others languages at all.

Or the Pyrdaens thought it beneath themselves to learn the Rakash tounge. That's not to say that a few select member of each race didn't choose to learn each others langauges, just in case.

SC and player of


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  TURNIPKID from PLAY.NET (Drunken Goddess)
On  Dec 18, 2001 at 17:19
Subject  Re: Language (since that's what this thread is really about!) (1182)
>> There are no prydaens that shoot elders in the chest, but good point.

Wasn't there just a huge trial because a few Pyrdaens decided they were going to kill members of their own race/pride? ::coughmeercandcrewcough:: ;) And who would you rather share a bottle of bloodwine with, them or me?

SC and player of

PS Actually keep the bloodwine, it's a little to erm...thick for my tastes heh


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  BLUR from PLAY.NET (Refugee from the Unknown Lands)
On  Dec 18, 2001 at 17:22
Subject  Re: Language (since that's what this thread is really about!) (1183)
<<A Pyrdean who shoots an Elder in the chest, or the Dwarven empath who puts herself in mortal peril in order to save the Elder's life? Who would you rather have a conversation with when the day is through?

I would think the answer would be obvious, the dwarf of course. That is what Common is for, anyway.

<<And traditionally Elotheans think that every race besides their own is mentally inferior. We all have excuses for IC racism.

Bingo! I think it is quite unfortunate that more Elothians do not play their character as their culture would suggest. The player of Drongol has earned more respect from me, because of the way he RP's his character. If Drongol even likes Humm, Humm would have no way of knowing it, and that is superb! Its absolutely fabulous, Dahling. Role Playing a dwarf as a grumpy scowling curmudgeon who speaks civilly only to those of his own race isn't as easy as it sounds. I have truely enjoyed his arrogant and coarse nature, and I have also had the greatest of times shaking nail bits out of Humm's sharpener standing right next to him and aiming for his beard. I actually miss him not being in the Crossings Guild to interact with.

I wish more of you could actually pull it out of the hat like that.

Michael, aka Humm "Proud Ears" Breaux


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  WARCHILDE from PLAY.NET (Sin Is In)
On  Dec 18, 2001 at 17:26
Subject  Re: Language (since that's what this thread is really about!) (1184)
>> There are no prydaens that shoot elders in the chest, but good point.

Hehe I knew this would get a few people asking.

There are no prydaens that shoot elders in the chest because those foul creatures that would do such a thing are branded and are lost forever from the Wheel.

Sorry for the intended confusion.

~Ternith


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  BLUR from PLAY.NET (Refugee from the Unknown Lands)
On  Dec 18, 2001 at 19:38
Subject  Re: Language (since that's what this thread is really about!) (1189)
I was going to reply to this, but have decided that I will post what I have to say in the Conflicts Folder, because this is where it really belongs anyway. I don't feel that what I have to say is too "inflammatory", and I know its going to draw in the usualy crowd that lives to jump into the fray, but my luck has been in short supply lately, and have no desire to push it.

Michael, aka Humm "Proud Ears" Breaux


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  RESiSTANCE_Bomb from Microsoft Gaming Zone (Jaebom)
On  Dec 18, 2001 at 19:49
Subject  Re: Language (since that's what this thread is really about!) (1190)
anyone else notice how silly this thread has gotten? we lost the topic sometime last night...i don't even have anything constructive to say in responce to the last 30 posts on the thread because they all belonged in a conflict folder (any chance of getting one added in the race section? i don't think it would go unused) quit acting like children, that's my job, damnit! so what if one is better than the other or if none are truly best? what the hell's all that got to do with learning a language? and how do you figure that allowing people to learn 2 or 3 extra languages is going to cause the deterioration of entire IC cultures? so what if most people would learn prydaen and elven? those two races are already very common, so the ammount of privacy offered is minute anyway. maybe people really don't want to learn those languages anyway? alot of people who don't already play a prydaen or two to start with don't even like prydaens as a race, and elves aren't really known for their big elven get-togethers and meetings or racial solidarity, so ilithic tends to be rarely (in my expirience) spoken anyway, and therefore undesirable as a second language. why a prydaen would find a person of another race speaking their language to be so absolutely obscene as to strike them down on the spot is beyond me. any other race would find it to be very respectful, and in many cases, downright pleasant, and in the case of elotheans, quite surprising. why people continually put s'kra as an upper level language is a bit of a mystery to me. s'kra are by no means new to this corner of the world, and they've had many profound and constant contacts with other races, and from what's been mentioned in books, it's not difficult to learn, apparently, despite the physical differences between the more human-like races and the s'kra. if the differences were that profound, common would be hellish for a s'kra to speak, and i speak it with a perfect crossing accent (unfortunately, i also speak s'kra in a crossing accent). toggish strikes me as being a bit closer in pronunciation to haakish than it would be to the other races...if you can get your hands on a copy of the history of togball and just look at the names, you'd see what i mean. as for its syntax and grammar rules 'n' stuff like that, it's probly not very complex, possibly borrowing heavily from s'kra due to the long enslavement of the togs by the s'kra.

Jaebom --my best friend growing up was the tog next door, but there's no way in hell i could hold a conversation in toggish beyond "where's the bathroom?!"


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DANTASE from PLAY.NET (Ecoles)
On  Dec 18, 2001 at 21:19
Subject  This whole language bit! (1191)
Alright, trying to capitalize on this idea.

So what we've come up to at this moment is the following:

A language system would be nice, but would in certain cases create a RP nightmare. In case a language system is instituted, languages should be hard to learn according to some factors, mainly physical differences and commonoligy (I know it's not a word) of the language.

Feel free to add to this, and please do it in point form.

Now, just a few clarifications on some general prydaen comments that have been made:

1 - Prydaen books are not written by Prydaens, but mainly Humans that stayed with Prydaens for a while.

2 - Prydaens did not learn how to speak Rakash, but a device was given to a certain Claw (Claw of Azra) who traded with Rakash that allowed Prydaens to understand Rakash, and Rakash to understand Prydaen.

3 - Odly enough there are no records to any interactions between the two races, with the exception of the Claw of Azra and of a small reference to the arrival of the Rakash on one of the hubs, where together they stood under the leadership of Vael to fight Lyras. Oh yeah, and something about everything for the Rakash being pack pack pack....

Ecoles, who would like a language system, but one that wouldn't allow lowly barbarians to learn them.
:::glances at Ternith and Dragoonseal:::


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  BLUR from PLAY.NET (Refugee from the Unknown Lands)
On  Dec 18, 2001 at 21:20
Subject  Its not just about language (1192)
After counting to ten many times over, I have decided not to take this to the general conflicts forlder, because I know that the usual herd of people will jump all over it for no other reason than sport. I'm just not up to that. Dealing with the limited amount of "Power Conflicters" in here is bad enough.

Let it suffice to say that my policy will be to state my views and then be done with most things. If others are petty enough to try to make arguments solely for the sake of arguing, they are on their own. I'm not impressed.

Michael, aka Humm "Proud Ears" Breaux


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  RESiSTANCE_Bomb from Microsoft Gaming Zone (Jaebom)
On  Dec 18, 2001 at 21:51
Subject  Re: Its not just about language (1194)
nuh-uh!! you're just a big poopy-head!!

Jaebom --please note the satire


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  BLUR from PLAY.NET (Refugee from the Unknown Lands)
On  Dec 18, 2001 at 21:57
Subject  Re: Language (since that's what this thread is really about!) (1195)
SC, I guess that your little joke wasn't too bad of a little joke. If I weren't so worn out and frustrated already with other previous posting of the last few weeks, I suspect I would have gotten it. As I see it now, though, its certainly not the insult I first thought it to be. I guess I'm getting a bit too conditined to perceive the slights, lately. Please accept my apologies.

Michael, aka Humm "Proud Ears" Breaux


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  TURNIPKID from PLAY.NET (Drunken Goddess)
On  Dec 18, 2001 at 22:04
Subject  Re: Language (since that's what this thread is really about!) (1196)
>>I guess I'm getting a bit too conditined to perceive the slights, lately.

Oy, I wish I could count the number of times that happened to me. But no worries, happens to the best of us.

SC and player of


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  REAVER1 from PLAY.NET (E!)
On  Dec 19, 2001 at 00:58
Subject  What I don't want to see... (1197)
...is needing to learn a skill to roleplay.

"Excuse me. I need to stop roleplaying for a while so I can honestly understand this person I've known for over ten years...."

-Chris


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  MOONTOUCHED from PLAY.NET (Official Board Monkey)
On  Dec 19, 2001 at 02:25
Subject  Re: What I don't want to see... (1198)
<<...is needing to learn a skill to roleplay.>>

Then you are at the wrong venue. You're more than welcome to play a MUSH. I can recommend a few good ones, in fact, as long as you're not opposed to the idea of stepping outside of the high fantasy genre (it's terribly hard to find a good high fantasy MUSH, although there's a fabulous Tolkien-based one).

The simple fact of the matter is DR is a skill-based game and if something can justifiably be linked to a skill, then it damn well should be.

If you don't feel like learning Scholarship for the priviledge to understand another language, just look at it this way: "Sure, I listened to Vic speak in Gerenshuge.. but I never really had any intrest in deciphering the intent of his speech. It's all 'Tog to me."

Loq


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DR-SHAKAHN from PLAY.NET (Furball)
On  Dec 19, 2001 at 05:10
Subject  Re: Proposed Langauge System (1199)
Hehe, just poking in a thought.

Some vocals movements I would think would be near impossible to duplicate.

Just a thought from this nutcase :-)

Shakahn


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  MOONTOUCHED from PLAY.NET (Official Board Monkey)
On  Dec 19, 2001 at 07:31
Subject  Re: Proposed Langauge System (1200)
<<Some vocals movements I would think would be near impossible to duplicate.>>

Shakahn, the point is not necessarily speaking the language. As everyone knows Common, it's kind of moot. Understanding the language is the true issue.

Like I said before, it may well be impossible for a Human to properly speak S'Kra Mur. That's fine. Based on their Charisma, they do "so good" of a job at it. Something might get lost in the translation, but the Mur will understand it, even if it makes them snicker for days.

This is not to say that any of the racial languages would be impossible to speak, given the effort (Charisma).

Loq


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  CRYPTOR from PLAY.NET (dimly flickering)
On  Dec 19, 2001 at 08:39
Subject  Re: What I don't want to see... (1201)
<<...is needing to learn a skill to roleplay.>>

That's why we will always have common. If you want to RP a S'Kra who speaks Gamgweth (why this would be is beyond me), you would have to have the scholarship to do so. It is the same as if I wanted to roleplay a spirit hunter. Ya gotta have the ranks to actually do it.

The current system does not allow for the roleplay of a S'Kra speaking anything but common and S'Kra. The ideas being proposed here would expand RP, not limit it.

-Gheist


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  REAVER1 from PLAY.NET (E!)
On  Dec 19, 2001 at 08:52
Subject  Re: What I don't want to see... (1202)
>The ideas being proposed here would expand RP, not limit it.

They're trying to expand in one direction....I'm trying to expand in another.

>If you want to RP a S'Kra who speaks Gamgweth (why this would be is beyond me)

Human fiance. Human upbringing. Human friends. An interest in Gamgweth.

>you would have to have the scholarship to do so.

Ah. Yes. Like I said in my first post....excuse me. I need to stop roleplaying so I can some day really understand you instead of just pretending.(Though how I can't understand you after being around you for more than nine years is beyond me...)

>The simple fact of the matter is DR is a skill-based game

It's a roleplaying game.

>and if something can justifiably be linked to a skill, then it damn well should be.

Just because I can go out and beat someone up, doesn't mean I should.

-Chris


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  REAVER1 from PLAY.NET (E!)
On  Dec 19, 2001 at 08:55
Subject  Re: What I don't want to see... (1203)
Sorry. Missed this.

>but I never really had any intrest in deciphering the intent of his speech. It's all 'Tog to me."

Who says I haven't put any effort into deciphering Gamgweth?

As things stand, the best that can be done is learning High Gamgweth...which I have done.

If I got a "Pryn says, "XXXX" in Gamgweth" message...then sure. I'll start deciphering

-Kilan


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  WARCHILDE from PLAY.NET (Sin Is In)
On  Dec 19, 2001 at 10:05
Subject  And now for a new topic: OOC (winks at Shakhan) (1204)
LOTR rules. Went to go see last night and if there is any other way for it to get any better I honestly don't know. And what does this have to do with race you might ask... For one brief moment when I say Legolias or however his name is spelled with his bow..I thought...damn Ternith should have been an elf. Then I came to my senses.

jimi, mind behind the maddness


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  CRYPTOR from PLAY.NET (dimly flickering)
On  Dec 19, 2001 at 10:19
Subject  Re: What I don't want to see... (1205)
>>The ideas being proposed here would expand RP, not limit it.

>They're trying to expand in one direction....I'm trying to expand in another.

So you are proposing that we be able to speak other races' languages without needing any skill to do so so that you can RP?

I think that is a poor direction to take the game and that it would trivialize language. Getting to speak another language without any effort would take the value of speaking that language down to near worthlessness. Lets reward people for high skills rather than give 'em freebies.

>(why this would be is beyond me)

I was being prideful of S'Kra heritage. I can imagine many instances where a S'Kra would interact with humans. (why they wanna mess with folk with hair is still strange)

-Gheist


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DANTASE from PLAY.NET (Ecoles)
On  Dec 19, 2001 at 10:25
Subject  Re: And now for a new topic: OOC (winks at Shakhan) (1206)
Just grab yourself a copy of FF X. There's a dude that looks a lot like us Prydaens... I mean, he's blue, and has a chopped horn on his head, but man oh man, He's big.

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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  RESiSTANCE_Bomb from Microsoft Gaming Zone (Jaebom)
On  Dec 19, 2001 at 11:24
Subject  Re: What I don't want to see... (1207)
very lucrative. there's nothing wrong with cheating someone outside of your ru'at out of money, as long as it doesn't do them more harm than it does you good.

Jaebom --"swindled? nah, they were gifts"


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  MOONTOUCHED from PLAY.NET (Official Board Monkey)
On  Dec 19, 2001 at 12:26
Subject  Re: What I don't want to see... (1208)
<<Who says I haven't put any effort into deciphering Gamgweth?>>

The system does, ultimately. The system says "Hmmm, Kilan hasn't attained the 100 ranks of scholarship necessary to learn Gamgweth, therefore he cannot understand it and I send him the "Lovey says something in Gamgweth" message."

You need to remember, the systems are more or less stand-in GMs to handle all of the more mundane tasks in the Realms. If you're not pleasing the system, it's the same as not pleasing a GM.

<<If I got a "Pryn says, "XXXX" in Gamgweth" message...then sure. I'll start deciphering>>

So go learn Scholarship. An aversion to skill training is no way to justify wanting to learn languages all willy-nilly (I love that compound word, heh). If my main character in Prime had been accorded a language for having spent X amount of time around a member of that race, he'd understand every language. While that's all well and good for a MUSH, it doesn't exactly fly in a skill-based game.

And here's where you're banging your head against a wall: in a skill-based game, you need skills to achieve. Without skill, you're not capable. If you don't practice a skill, it's exactly like you've slept through math class. You simply don't pick up the lessons.

Other people speaking in a foreign language could teach a very small (VERY small) amount of scholarship, perhaps. Not enough that just listening in to a few conversations could lock your Scholarship, but maybe get it to concentrating after an hour or two.

Loq


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  WARCHILDE from PLAY.NET (Sin Is In)
On  Dec 19, 2001 at 12:50
Subject  Re: What I don't want to see... (1209)
<<And here's where you're banging your head against a wall: in a skill-based game, you need skills to achieve. Without skill, you're not capable. If you don't practice a skill, it's exactly like you've slept through math class. You simply don't pick up the lessons.>>

Amen to that. I couldn't agree with Loq more.

~Ternith


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  RESiSTANCE_Bomb from Microsoft Gaming Zone (Jaebom)
On  Dec 19, 2001 at 13:07
Subject  Re: What I don't want to see... (1210)
i've gotta agree here too. and listening to people speak other languages shouldn't move scholarship beyond learning. it's really not much of a help to anything unless you're already trying to learn that language already (i know someone from mexico who actually learned english by watching english shows subtitled into spanish. he's now training to be a doctor)

Jaebom --the difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits - Albert Einstein


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  REAVER1 from PLAY.NET (E!)
On  Dec 20, 2001 at 04:04
Subject  Re: What I don't want to see... (1211)
>Getting to speak another language without any effort

I never said anything about 'without any effort'.

>Lets reward people for high skills rather than give 'em freebies.

Already happens. All the time. A few freebies would be nice...but I'm not talking about that, either.

>I can imagine many instances where a S'Kra would interact with humans. (why they wanna mess with folk with hair is still strange)

The heart knows no boundaries....

-Chris, player of Kilan


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  REAVER1 from PLAY.NET (E!)
On  Dec 20, 2001 at 04:12
Subject  Re: What I don't want to see... (1212)
>The system does, ultimately. The system says "Hmmm, Kilan hasn't attained the 100 ranks of scholarship necessary to learn Gamgweth, therefore he cannot understand it and I send him the "Lovey says something in Gamgweth" message."

A few questions....

1. Why Scholarship?

2. Why 100 ranks?

>An aversion to skill training

I don't mind training skills. At all.

I DO mind being forced to train skills to RP.

>If my main character in Prime had been accorded a language for having spent X amount of time around a member of that race, he'd understand every language.

Ah, yes. The joys of immersion. It's how I learned French.(Quebecoise, to be specific...yes, there's a difference.)

>While that's all well and good for a MUSH, it doesn't exactly fly in a skill-based game.

Skill-based game, no. Skill-based roleplaying game, yes.

>And here's where you're banging your head against a wall: in a skill-based game, you need skills to achieve. Without skill, you're not capable. If you don't practice a skill, it's exactly like you've slept through math class. You simply don't pick up the lessons.

Bad analogy. I slept through Math(Likewise French, Home Ec. and Biology) and passed with flying colors.

>Other people speaking in a foreign language could teach a very small (VERY small) amount of scholarship, perhaps.

Only if the LISTEN verb were modified to enable you to LISTEN to someone when they aren't teaching. So I could LISTEN to X speak language Y and/or STUDY X.

>Not enough that just listening in to a few conversations could lock your Scholarship, but maybe get it to concentrating after an hour or two.

Don't see why you keep on bringing up Scholarship...

There's more than one way to learn something.

I know scholarship is useless, but no need to be trying to tie everything into it.

-Chris


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  REAVER1 from PLAY.NET (E!)
On  Dec 20, 2001 at 04:16
Subject  Re: What I don't want to see... (1213)
>The system does, ultimately. The system says "Hmmm, Kilan hasn't attained the 100 ranks of scholarship necessary to learn Gamgweth, therefore he cannot understand it and I send him the "Lovey says something in Gamgweth" message."

Of course it could _never_ be a faulty system. Or an incomplete system in an ever-expanding world.

-Chris, player of Kilan


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  MOONTOUCHED from PLAY.NET (Official Board Monkey)
On  Dec 20, 2001 at 06:10
Subject  Re: What I don't want to see... (1214)
<<1. Why Scholarship?>>

Can you think of any other skill that represents your learning ability?

<<2. Why 100 ranks?>>

Go back and read the thread.

<<I don't mind training skills. At all.

<<I DO mind being forced to train skills to RP.>>

Let's do the math: you don't like training skills.

<<Skill-based game, no. Skill-based roleplaying game, yes.>>

Actually, DR is a "role-play if it pleases you to do so in a vacuum" game. It is, first and foremost, a skill-based game. I'm sorry to have to break that to you.

<<Bad analogy. I slept through Math(Likewise French, Home Ec. and Biology) and passed with flying colors.>>

I slept through High School and passed easily -- requirements in this country have been dumbed down so far a monkey could get out of your average high school. ::shrug:: Point is, I never learned anything while I was in class. Which was the point I was trying to make.

<<I know scholarship is useless, but no need to be trying to tie everything into it.>>

Um, scholarship IS tied into everything involving learning. That's all I'm gonna say about that, you'll need to figure out what it means yourself.

<<Of course it could _never_ be a faulty system. Or an incomplete system in an ever-expanding world.>>

System's not broken. ::shrug:: It's not like it's sending you "Lovey jumps up and down on one foot." It is incomplete, which was exactly what the entire thread was about. Seriously, READ THE THREAD.

Loq


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  REAVER1 from PLAY.NET (E!)
On  Dec 20, 2001 at 07:09
Subject  Re: What I don't want to see... (1215)
>Can you think of any other skill that represents your learning ability?

Sorry. Should have been clearer. Why a skill?

>Go back and read the thread.

Doesn't answer me any better. Thus why I asked.

>Let's do the math: you don't like training skills.

Heh. Uh-huh. That's why I spend a sadly large amount of time training?

>Actually, DR is a "role-play if it pleases you to do so in a vacuum" game.

Mind showing me where it says that?

>It is, first and foremost, a skill-based game.

Same question as above.

>Point is, I never learned anything while I was in class. Which was the point I was trying to make.

Still not a very good point....I learned plenty.

>Um, scholarship IS tied into everything involving learning.

Nope.

>System's not broken.

Heh.

>It's not like it's sending you "Lovey jumps up and down on one foot."

That's an 'extreme case' of broken....

>It is incomplete, which was exactly what the entire thread was about.

Yes. Now...

WHY SCHOLARSHIP? WHY ANY SKILL?

>Seriously, READ THE THREAD.

Been there. Done that. You're awfully redundant. Doesn't help at all.

-Chris


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  CRYPTOR from PLAY.NET (dimly flickering)
On  Dec 20, 2001 at 08:18
Subject  Re: What I don't want to see... (1216)
Scholarship is an existing skill which makes sense.

Studying a foriegn language would be a scholarly persuit, thus, one's aptitude toward scholarship would be appropriate. Scholarship currently fuctions to determine how well you learn from listening to a class. The link to learning how well you would learn a language is not exactly a gorge.

As to why a skill at all?

You say you want to roleplay a person who speaks another language and your RP shouldn't be burdened by having to learn a skill.

I say I want to roleplay a thief and my RP shouldn't be burdened by having to learn the hiding or stealing skills.

Bob says he wants to RP a rich trader and his RP shouldn't be burdened by having to actually earn money.

Jim says he'd like to RP a High Priest, but shouldn't be burdened by having to advance to 100th circle to gain the title.

That's just not how the game works.

You can RP (use the "act" verb) anything in DR ::within policy:: without ever learning any skill. It just happens to not be the way nearly every player shooses to enjoy the game.

-Gheist


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  REAVER1 from PLAY.NET (E!)
On  Dec 20, 2001 at 08:46
Subject  Re: What I don't want to see... (1217)
>You say you want to roleplay a person who speaks another language and your RP shouldn't be burdened by having to learn a skill.

Yup.

>I say I want to roleplay a thief and my RP shouldn't be burdened by having to learn the hiding or stealing skills.

Entirely possible.

>Bob says he wants to RP a rich trader and his RP shouldn't be burdened by having to actually earn money.

Also entirely possible.

>Jim says he'd like to RP a High Priest, but shouldn't be burdened by having to advance to 100th circle to gain the title.

Once again...entirely possible.

>It just happens to not be the way nearly every player shooses to enjoy the game.

Which is quite sad....

Now...back to the first...a bit of re-wording.

I want to roleplay a S'kra Mur able to speak/understand Gamgweth.

Not possible.

-Chris


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  WARCHILDE from PLAY.NET (Sin Is In)
On  Dec 20, 2001 at 08:57
Subject  Re: What I don't want to see... (1218)
<<Yup.>>

Why.

<<Entirely possible.>>

No

<<Also entirely possible.>>

Not unless he or she is a tink.

<<Once again...entirely possible.>>

Wrong

<<Which is quite sad....>>

Which follows the flow of this entire thread.

<<I want to roleplay a S'kra Mur able to speak/understand Gamgweth.>>

Which might one day be possiable for those that actually want to work for it.

<<Not possible.>>

For those that are following your mind set of wanting it handed to them with little or no work on there part. You are absolutly correct.

~Ternith


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  REAVER1 from PLAY.NET (E!)
On  Dec 20, 2001 at 09:09
Subject  Re: What I don't want to see... (1219)
>Why.

Should your skills be burdened by RP? Should your character need to eat regularly, sleep, drink, catch colds, flu, etc.?

>No

Yup. My Thief doesn't work skills...but has been passed for a top notch Thief more than a few times....

>Not unless he or she is a tink.

Not at all.

>Which follows the flow of this entire thread.

Heh.

>Which might one day be possiable for those that actually want to work for it.

Yes. I just don't see why it HAS to be through skills. Care to explain?(No. The "This is a skill-based game" won't cut it)

>For those that are following your mind set of wanting it handed to them with little or no work on there part.

I never said any such thing. Pay attention.

-Chris


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  BLUR from PLAY.NET (Refugee from the Unknown Lands)
On  Dec 20, 2001 at 09:21
Subject  Re: What I don't want to see... (1220)
>For those that are following your mind set of wanting it handed to them with little or no work on there part.

<<<I never said any such thing. Pay attention.

<<<-Chris

 Chris, I get the feeling he wasn't directing that to you. You might want to consider the concept that not everything is about you.

 Tsk, tsk, tsk.

Michael, aka Humm "Proud Ears" Breaux


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  REAVER1 from PLAY.NET (E!)
On  Dec 20, 2001 at 09:26
Subject  Re: What I don't want to see... (1221)
> Chris, I get the feeling he wasn't directing that to you. You might want to consider the concept that not everything is about you.

If a large percent of his post is responding to a post of mine, I'll consider the last little bit directed to me, as well.

-Chris


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  CRYPTOR from PLAY.NET (Bored Preacher)
On  Dec 20, 2001 at 09:49
Subject  Re: What I don't want to see... (1222)
>(No. The "This is a skill-based game" won't cut it)

Then I'll put it another way.

For the most part, DR is set up to allow for free roleplay within the confines of a skill based system. Those who wish to roleplay without ever incorporating mechanically determined skill may do so with any who wish to participate. The fact that the skills do exist, and that most players prefer to utilize those skills as part of roleplay, means that most mechanically controlled aspects of the game will be based on skill. The lanuage system is a mechanically controlled aspect of DR, and as such, any changes or additions ought to be made within the skills system, rewarding players who have trained the mechanical aspect of their characters.

Creatures are another mechanically controlled portion of the game. One cannot, as much as they may wish it were so, roleplay killing a rock guardian without skill checks.

One cannot steal from another player without skill checks.

One cannot actually have coin without earning it in some way. You do not just end up with 1000 plats because you want to roleplay a rich man. You have to go and at least pick up the skins that other players gained through skill, or pick up the coins other players gained through skill and make the effort to aquire wealth.

Based on these precidents, the learning of additional language ought to be founded in one's aptitude in a skill.

The short way of saying this is, it is a skills-based game. Benefits ought to be based upon those skills, because if they are not, it is not actually a skills based game, it is a multi-room chatroom with a few NPC scripts and character descriptions. One can set up an AIM chatroom and RP all they wish. There will be no requirements to earn an skill. DR is however a place where one must RP with in the world conception and the mechanics which opperate within that world.

-Holy Mage Gheist


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  REAVER1 from PLAY.NET (E!)
On  Dec 20, 2001 at 09:57
Subject  Re: What I don't want to see... (1223)
>One cannot steal from another player without skill checks.

One cannot use the steal verb without skill checks, true....

>One cannot actually have coin without earning it in some way.

Correct. It's hard, yes, but entirely possible to do without invoking the skill system.(Directly)

>Based on these precidents, the learning of additional language ought to be founded in one's aptitude in a skill.

Easier with a skill, yes...possible without? Yes, please.

As is you'd either need to have every speaker of language X whisper to you....or guess wildly.(Or have a speaker of language X by your side at all times....)

I'm not talking about no one ever using the skill system. I'm talking about alternative methods.

-Chris


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  WARCHILDE from PLAY.NET (Sin Is In)
On  Dec 20, 2001 at 10:01
Subject  Re: What I don't want to see... (1224)
<<I'm not talking about no one ever using the skill system. I'm talking about alternative methods.>>

So what are these alternative methods.

~Ternith


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  CRYPTOR from PLAY.NET (Bored Preacher)
On  Dec 20, 2001 at 10:13
Subject  Re: What I don't want to see... (1225)
Everyone in the game is already bi-lingual and should continue to be whatever changes in the system. You speak your racial language and common. Any additional languages should require some effort (skill). In RL I took 3 years of German, which involved a fair, but not overwhelming amount of effort and I am hardly bi-lingual.

-Holy Mage Gheist


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  CTRADER from PLAY.NET
On  Dec 20, 2001 at 10:14
Subject  Re: What I don't want to see... (1226)
>So what are these alternative methods.

Acting, sweet one.

-Fre'

"Long live the idiots"


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  MOD-DREUX from PLAY.NET (Sir Nix-a-lot)
On  Dec 20, 2001 at 11:01
Subject  Hidden (1228)
A post was hidden.

Questions or comments should be sent to me at MOD-Dreux@play.net

BM Dreux


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  NMADISON from PLAY.NET
On  Dec 20, 2001 at 11:03
Subject  Re: What I don't want to see... (1229)
You can use the ACT verb to simulate knowing a language...

But in DR, many things require that you have some skill to complete a task. That is what DR is. You can use ACT to speak in Prydaenese if you're not a Prydaen, but I'd like to see you climb the Hara'jaal cliffs with 0 climbing skill. You can't ACT that out. You can't kill a monster using the ACT verb because Elanthian Reality says that you can't.

-Karentil


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  SCYTHA from PLAY.NET (Shokuyou nano?)
On  Dec 21, 2001 at 09:40
Subject  Re: What I don't want to see... (1230)
There's always the alternative to using a skill, which is to make it time based. Perhaps it would take 4 elanthian years of being around a specific race and having heard them speak it quite a bit to finaly be able to speak and understand it. It would seem much easier to use the skill that actualy quantifies one's abilility to learn and study, since it's in place and those who are supposed to be good learners already have it. Maybe a language would take a few elanthian years, but the rate it's learned from being around others would be based on your scholarship, so a guy with 400 schol only takes 3 elanthian years with less chatter around her to learn a language, while a guy with 40 schol takes 10 years and a lot more talk to get a grasp of it. The critical elements though are A) several elanthian years and B) being around and hearing that language on a constant basis (per-time capped, so people don't just spam endlessly in private to teach themselves, the have to genuinely be around people conversing). IMHO, an adult should still never be able to learn a language to the point where she can understand it perfectly unless they have a giant amount of scholarship. So perhaps there could also be a capped based on how far you advance dependant on scholarship. After all, the base of the language is learned quickly, the details are learned exponentialy slower as you learn more of the language.

-Kitrinx

-Kitrinx


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  ZONKAR from PLAY.NET (Perpetual Student)
On  Dec 21, 2001 at 22:05
Subject  Re: What I don't want to see... (1231)
Of course, making it time based is kind of like making it a hidden skill - somewhat like the prediction counter for moon mages.

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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  SCYTHA from PLAY.NET (Shokuyou nano?)
On  Dec 22, 2001 at 09:05
Subject  Re: What I don't want to see... (1232)
It's an ability, not a skill. Language is something you can't master overnight. You'd have to put a timer there somewhere to prevent stupid abuse from people spamming endlessly with two chars in their house or something. It's realistic to expect it to take a long time to learn a language.

-Kitrinx


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  NMADISON from PLAY.NET
On  Dec 22, 2001 at 10:42
Subject  Re: What I don't want to see... (1233)
It's realistic to use Scholarship then, because it takes a long time to learn Scholarship, too!

Using scholarship as a base only makes sense. It also gives a much-needed use to scholarship. Yay!

-Karentil, my opinion


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DR-SHAKAHN from PLAY.NET (Furball)
On  Dec 24, 2001 at 06:35
Subject  Re: And now for a new topic: OOC (winks at Shakhan) (1234)
Yep, got that picture, had someone chop that horn off his head and it is now part of my background on my computer :-)

Saw that picture and said, "Man, thats a Prydaen!"

Shakahn

>Just grab yourself a copy of FF X. There's a dude that looks a lot like us Prydaens... I mean, he's blue, and has a chopped horn on his head, but man oh man, He's big.


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  BLUR from PLAY.NET (Refugee from the Unknown Lands)
On  Dec 24, 2001 at 10:20
Subject  To Everyone (Yeah Especially the Prydaens, but everyone really) (1235)
Merry Christmas to you and to all that's yours, and may that happiness travel with you in all the dark places where you must walk through the rest of they year. I love you all.

Michael, aka Humm "Proud Ears" Breaux


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  RESiSTANCE_Bomb from Microsoft Gaming Zone (Jaebom)
On  Dec 24, 2001 at 15:11
Subject  Re: To Everyone (Yeah Especially the Prydaens, but everyone really) (1236)
even me?! *blushes his usual splotchy, mottled blush and giggles wildly* oh you naughty thing you!!

Jaebom --please note: satire


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  FALKONISDR from PLAY.NET
On  Dec 24, 2001 at 18:27
Subject  bit confused.. (1237)
ok I juss read a bunch of posts in this folder ( I never ben in here before) and I was reading many post that people claim to know what the different races look like. Ok I KNOW what humans elves dwarves half-lings and maybe prydeans look like. But Is there a place where there are pictures of each race to where we can see what they look like as the Game designers intended them to look like??

thanks in advance and Happy holidays

Falk, whos trying to figure out how everyone knows what all the races look like


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  ZONKAR from PLAY.NET (Perpetual Student)
On  Dec 24, 2001 at 19:10
Subject  Re: bit confused.. (1238)
If you've downloaded the art paks then you can see a picture of each race when you first create a character. Also, I believe each statue has a brief description of that race. Beyond that there are plenty of in game books which hint at various aspects of each race.

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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  SMITHA77 from PLAY.NET (~fiery~)
On  Dec 24, 2001 at 20:35
Subject  Re: bit confused.. (1239)
The new website also has the racial pics on it...

http://www.play.net/dr/info/races/races.asp

Click on each race to get information and pictures on it.

Eira


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  FALKONISDR from PLAY.NET
On  Dec 25, 2001 at 02:32
Subject  Re: bit confused.. (1240)
thank you very much

Falk


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DMYSUS from PLAY.NET
On  Dec 27, 2001 at 16:58
Subject  Re: bit confused.. (1241)
If you are using eScape instead of the Wizard interface you don't have to download the art parts. The pics will download on their own.

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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  FALKONISDR from PLAY.NET
On  Dec 29, 2001 at 02:50
Subject  Re: bit confused.. (1242)
art packs?? I must of missed that. were are those located?

Falk


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  BARGIN from PLAY.NET
On  Dec 29, 2001 at 10:24
Subject  Re: bit confused.. (1243)
>>art packs?? I must of missed that. were are those located?

http://software.play.net

Install instructions are there. Keep in mind that they only work for the Wizard Front End, as the eScape front end handles inline images and does not need a download.


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  NORT from PLAY.NET
On  Dec 29, 2001 at 16:24
Subject  Re: bit confused.. (1244)
And the S'kra pictures are not the way many S'kra picture themselves, I believe. The S'kra on the website look very....strange. People have all kinds of different depictions of the S'kra race, but just about none of them adhere to the Official Simu Picture. At least, I don't recall anyone saying 'Boy, I sure do love that Simu S'kra picture!' Maybe someone does? Anyone?

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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  SMITHA77 from PLAY.NET (~fiery~)
On  Dec 29, 2001 at 21:55
Subject  Re: bit confused.. (1245)
Same goes for the Elothean pictures. Nowhere in game literature doos it say we're baldies. <huffs>

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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  TEVESHSZAT from PLAY.NET (Tert Mage and Packin Cambrinth)
On  Dec 29, 2001 at 23:46
Subject  Re: bit confused.. (1246)
>>Same goes for the Elothean pictures. Nowhere in game literature doos it say we're baldies. <huffs>

Why would books on Elotheans written by Elotheans need to state that, and if they did, why would it be stated in that manner (ie: I have no hair on the top of my head, I am balding). All Elotheans lack hair on the top of their heads. So, balding or being bald would mean they are losing or lack hair on their head where hair should be.

You don't see books RL with: "And the Human raises his two arms which are equal in length and reach two and a half to three feet from his body, with four fingers of around two inches average and a thumb of aronud one inch..."

Same for Elotheans. Why would a book for Elotheans point out something Elotheans already know and wouldn't seem out of the ordinary?


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  SMITHA77 from PLAY.NET (~fiery~)
On  Dec 29, 2001 at 23:58
Subject  Re: bit confused.. (1247)
<<Why would a book for Elotheans point out something Elotheans already know and wouldn't seem out of the ordinary?

Actually, the book "Elothean Studies", the major work on Elothean race and culture, was mostly written by a (non-Elothean) Dragon Priest. For more discussion on the subject of Elothean hairlines, see the Elothean boards from earlier this year. The debate went on for ages.

Eira


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  TEVESHSZAT from PLAY.NET (Tert Mage and Packin Cambrinth)
On  Dec 30, 2001 at 00:34
Subject  Re: bit confused.. (1248)
>>Actually, the book "Elothean Studies", the major work on Elothean race and culture, was mostly written by a (non-Elothean) Dragon Priest.

Except he was a racist :P


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  MOONTOUCHED from PLAY.NET (Official Board Monkey)
On  Dec 30, 2001 at 10:39
Subject  Re: bit confused.. (1249)
<<For more discussion on the subject of Elothean hairlines, see the Elothean boards from earlier this year. The debate went on for ages.>>

The information originally granted to players about each of the races may not remain entirely accurate, but it did say that the utter vast majority Elotheans are (and go) bald. Now, they let Elotheans pick hair anyway (which was probably a mistake), and without a single exception, all Elotheans had some hair. So the general assumption became Elotheans have hair, but they're bald/ing through the course of their lives, which leaves the top of their heads bare.

This is a case of the GMs letting players lead them in terms of appearance, but to be totally frank, they're under no requirement to do so insofar as races go. They remain entirely the territory of GMs to define physically and that's a good thing.

As far as Simu's portraits go, I tend to view them as highly-stylized, but more or less accurate representations of the races (that includes S'kra Mur). Further to the point, they're the official portraits, and there's not much you can do about that. I doubt Simu will commission another portrait.

Loq


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  TEVESHSZAT from PLAY.NET (Tert Mage and Packin Cambrinth)
On  Dec 30, 2001 at 16:06
Subject  Re: bit confused.. (1250)
>>Now, they let Elotheans pick hair anyway (which was probably a mistake), and without a single exception, all Elotheans had some hair. So the general assumption became Elotheans have hair, but they're bald/ing through the course of their lives, which leaves the top of their heads bare.

Ummmm... no.

Elotheans are born WITHOUT hair on the top of their heads. It would be silly for an Elothean to consider him or herself bald or balding when in order to be bald or balding they would be losing hair where hair should be.


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  RACOON56 from PLAY.NET (ENUNCIATE!)
On  Dec 30, 2001 at 17:34
Subject  Re: bit confused.. (1251)
... like this is a debate we have not heard before...

-Fatalistic Seldaene


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  CTRADER from PLAY.NET
On  Dec 30, 2001 at 23:47
Subject  Re: bit confused.. (1252)
>It would be silly for an Elothean to consider him or herself bald or balding when in order to be bald or balding they would be losing hair where hair should be.

Baldness does not require hair in the first place.

bald (bld) adj. balder, baldest Lacking hair on the head.

Balding however would.

-Fre'

"When your right, your a whale."


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  TEVESHSZAT from PLAY.NET (Tert Mage and Packin Cambrinth)
On  Dec 31, 2001 at 00:11
Subject  Re: bit confused.. (1253)
>>bald (bld) adj. balder, baldest Lacking hair on the head.

They have hair on the head, just not on the top :P

And that's a 'human' definition of bald anyway.


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  RACOON56 from PLAY.NET (ENUNCIATE!)
On  Dec 31, 2001 at 03:29
Subject  Re: bit confused.. (1254)
This specific argument belongs in only one place: The Equine Cemetary. Unless you can think of a new angle.

-Seldaene


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  RESiSTANCE_Bomb from Microsoft Gaming Zone (Jaebom)
On  Jan 2, 2002 at 18:18
Subject  Re: bit confused.. (1255)
*gets out his dead horse whip* even the s'kra guru has stated that the "official" portrait is grossly inaccurate. we will soon be getting detailed anatomy books printed IG somewhere (most likely muspar'i i think it's been rumored)

just think lizard man as a basic reference, but don't ever call us that

Jaebom --S'kra and damn proud of it


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  BARBAROUS from PLAY.NET (Death By Tog)
On  Jan 6, 2002 at 01:11
Subject  Re: Proposed Langauge System (1256)
Yeah, I know the threads pretty much over, but I'm throwing in my two cents.

>>Like I said before, it may well be impossible for a Human to properly speak S'Kra Mur. That's fine. Based on their Charisma, they do "so good" of a job at it. Something might get lost in the translation, but the Mur will understand it, even if it makes them snicker for days.

Nice idea here, maybe have different messaging for different amounts of charisma so you can tell how good or bad the person is speaking said language. i.e. when Joe Nobody with 10 charisma tries to speak a language he's learned, everyone sees something like:

Joe attempts saying something in S'Kra, but you can barely understand him! You think he said,"(put the message here but change a few letters)"

While when Bob Somebody with like 50 charisma tries to speak a second language, everyone gets the normal messaging of:

Bob says, "Whatever."

I'd also like to throw in my support for the number of languages learned being directly related to scholarship. 100 ranks per language learned sounds fair enough no matter the guild.


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DELTAFOX29 from PLAY.NET (I support the title Miscreant)
On  Jan 7, 2002 at 19:10
Subject  Turning off languages (1257)
It would help me tremendously if it were possible to "turn off" common so that I cant understand it.

I know I can ignore it, but when its right there in front of you, its hard to be unresponsive to it.

Something that would let through partial or no common would be great indeed!

~Edgeblade, speaks Rakash and (very) broken Common


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  SAILORPLUTO from PLAY.NET
On  Jan 7, 2002 at 23:59
Subject  Re: Turning off languages (1258)
>>It would help me tremendously if it were possible to "turn off" common so that I cant understand it.

 I think you can squelch it, but then you wouldn't even know someone was talking to you. :shrug:

Not sure if that helps or not,
~Daergoth


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DELTAFOX29 from PLAY.NET (I support the title Miscreant)
On  Jan 10, 2002 at 09:44
Subject  Re: Turning off languages (1259)
>>I think you can squelch it, but then you wouldn't even know someone was talking to you. :shrug:<<

It would be a bit hard to interact with someone if I couldn't tell they were speaking.

Im trying to play someone who can't speak common too well, and wont understand most things, not a deaf person. :)


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  BLUR from PLAY.NET (Refugee from the Unknown Lands)
On  Jan 10, 2002 at 13:41
Subject  Re: Turning off languages (1260)
Suggestion for ya.

I have the string "in prydaenese" with a special highlight effect so that I instantly know when anyone is speaking prydaenese. I suggest you try that. highlight "in <however rakash sounds like>", and see if that helps you. You will still have common, but it will look quite different.

Michael, aka Humm Breaux


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DMYSUS from PLAY.NET
On  Jan 10, 2002 at 17:19
Subject  Re: Turning off languages (1261)
If you wanted to get insainly into it, here's what you can do. Do as the last post said and set it where whenever someone speaks your native language its highlighted with a white background and black text. Make sure to have it set where it highlights the entire line. Then, take some words that you consider your character not to understand in common and highlight those in black. Make sure NOT to set it to highlight the entire line.

This way, when someones speaking common the words you don't know you won't be able to see (assuming you use the standard black game window background.) But, when they speak the same word in the native language it will show up against the highlighted background.

Like I said, that's what you can do if you want to go insain with it.


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  MENTOS from PLAY.NET (Contrarian)
On  Jan 10, 2002 at 18:11
Subject  Re: Turning off languages (1262)
>> Then, take some words that you consider your character not to understand in common and highlight those in black.

Won't work, because they also get blanked out in non-speech.


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  BARBAROUS from PLAY.NET (Death By Tog)
On  Jan 11, 2002 at 01:48
Subject  Re: Turning off languages (1263)
>>Won't work, because they also get blanked out in non-speech.

Do it the opposite way and don't use black, then. Set it so the entire line is highlighted in white when someone speaks common. Select certain words that your character does know and high light them in yellow, blue, or some other color. Not only does this allow you to still see the words in non-speech (albeit in a different color), you also won't have to highlight as many individual words (since you only highliht the few words he/she does know). Now, as to why you would want to go through this much trouble... ;)

~B


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  LORD-RAHL from PLAY.NET (The KODT Avenger)
On  Jan 11, 2002 at 02:25
Subject  Re: Turning off languages (1264)
Only problem I see with that is names of places or people... since you wouldn't want to set it up for every name or place you came across that you would know since it very well might not differ (people's names in particular). Of course you coudl select the text to see if there was any names in it... but that would sorta defeat the whole point.

-Mozzik


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DMYSUS from PLAY.NET
On  Jan 11, 2002 at 07:34
Subject  Re: Turning off languages (1265)
Yeah, I was thinking about this and two ways you can do it.

Have set when ( says, " ) appears it highlights the entire line white with black text. Then the words you don't know in common have highlighted in white. This won't change how they appear anywhere else. Problem with this is someone might say "He's being argumenetive" and you've thought to highlight he and being...but your character someone knows the more complex word (not counting misspellings which I'm sure I did).

Or...

Have ( says, " ) highlight the entire line black with black text. Then the common words you DO know are highlighted white. Again won't effect anything else. Problem here is it will blank out the speakers name. But I guess if it seems you want to listen to them you can quickly highlight that persons name in white also.

Kinda comes down to one question.... How much trouble is it worth going through rather than just ignoring common speach yourself.


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  BENHHRU from PLAY.NET
On  Jan 11, 2002 at 12:57
Subject  Re: Turning off languages (1266)
It is possible, but perhaps not in the wizard or escape.

Back when I was using zmud, I set up a set of triggers for a S'Kra character that I was RP'ing as being unable to speak Common. I substituted the phrase "XXX says something in Common." everytime someone said something, much like you see whenever someone speaks in a racial language. The other triggers substituted "XXX asks something in Common." and "XXX yells something in Common. How rude." for questions and shouting.

It all worked fine, but the scroll was unbelievable. You don't really notice how much people say until it's just the same line over and over and over... ;p

Ben


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DELTAFOX29 from PLAY.NET (I support the title Miscreant)
On  Jan 14, 2002 at 20:25
Subject  Re: Turning off languages (1267)
I think Im going to have to just ignore it, because Im slowly learning common. Im into simple words now, and probably have a 30 word vocabulary.

If there were some way to get a language *learning* system working, that would be even better...but its just a wish. based on scholarship/intelligence, etc.

At 50 scholarship + intelligence, Im going to be doing simple sentences. probably 75 to be fairly fluent 100 to be perfect(mostly going to be scholarship, but oh well, I wont learn it overnight)

Probably around 50th, Ill be able to speak perfectly, as Im barbarian and lore tert. Oh well.

Edgeblade


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  MOD-DREUX from PLAY.NET (Sir Nix-a-lot)
On  Jan 15, 2002 at 00:20
Subject  New Monitor (1268)
Greetings Elanthians,
 I know you've only just gotten used to my presence here, but there is yet another who will be working these folders. Monitor Maryion will be working alongside me to help keep the peace, and keep things tidy. Give her the same respect you would to any other monitor and I'm sure things will go smoothly.

           Thanks
      Dreux Pastforiere
 DragonRealms Board Monitor


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DR-TESSIMA from PLAY.NET (An Elothean Pain in the Neck)
On  Jan 15, 2002 at 00:35
Subject  Re: New Monitor (1269)
Welcome, Maryion!

-Tessima


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  CRUSI from PLAY.NET (Pastlife.)
On  Jan 17, 2002 at 01:27
Subject  Racial Abilities/Teachers/Elders/GMs (1270)
I'd really like to see...maybe 12 new GM's hired, who's sole purpose is to create things for their race...not unlike a Guild GM.

I know we have racial CHampions...but from what I understand, they do this as more of a 'hobbie' than anything else. I'd like to see 11 GM's assigned to create things for the races. and a 12th to create a new race...*I'd also like to see a few new GM's assigned to make a new guild, but that's for another folder.*

I'd like to see Racial teachers/elders be stationed around the realms. They would teach the characters things. But rather than be based on circle, they are based on skill, and they are taught things based on the culture of the Race.

Since I'm dwarf, i'll use dwarves as an example. I haven't read the history of our race yet...so I'll just go on common folk-lore for the time being. Dwarves have always created Extreamly fine weapons, the best non-magic that could be made. And could create normal weapons at amazing speed. I would suggest taht in Stone clan, when someone has learned enough ML/Weapon/Ect...to forge a quality weapon, they can go to this dwarf who will then teach them a master technique, passed down from dwarven Ancient times... concentrating intently *a sort of meditation*...they can learn the ability to Forge a finer weapon.

It is also known that dwarves resist poison well...when they have enough Discipline and stamina, they can go to another dwarf elder, and be taught the ability to better resist poison.

Again, the requirements are mearly meeting the standards, rather than a circle. Such as a dwarven ability/mystic knowledge that increases hair growth rate. And they should reflect the race as a whole. Such as Elothians may have more mental abilities than physical abilities, while Gor togs would have more physical abilities than mental abilities

While undoubtedly everyone knows all races 'branch' into all areas of expertices...these would reflect the whole of the race...what a race is best known for.

Mental Abilities would work like magic, and perhaps even require ranks in magic to learn.

Dark Angel Crusinix


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  MOD-MARYION from PLAY.NET (Postsnatcher)
On  Jan 17, 2002 at 01:53
Subject  Re: New Monitor (1271)
Hi folks! Thanks for the welcome, it's appreciated.

           Maryion Clandesteen
           Dragon Realms Board Monitor


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DELTAFOX29 from PLAY.NET (Leth Coast Punk!)
On  Jan 17, 2002 at 10:13
Subject  Re: Racial Abilities/Teachers/Elders/GMs (1272)
More race destinction would be a great thing!

I'd like to have a setting that allows people's names to be highlighted in a certain color depending on what race they are, or like this

<title> <name> a/an <race> just went south

Edgeblade


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DMYSUS from PLAY.NET
On  Jan 18, 2002 at 03:02
Subject  Re: Racial Abilities/Teachers/Elders/GMs (1273)
It would be more realistic if, when someone walked into a room you only saw something like....

A young Kaldar male just entered. A mature Elothean female just went west.

It can be odd that the first time you see someone you know there full name and title.

I think it would be interesting if age, race, and gender where all you saw from someone until they introduced themselves to you. A couple of commands could be...

Greet (person) - You greet them and state your name. Greet all - You just say, "My name is....." and everyone in the room catches your name.

Whenever you do this, then people will see your name when you enter, leave, and in the room discription. Also....those of high enough rank would be known enough that they wouldn't need anytype of greetings. By shear reputation you'd know there name.

BUT, this would be a pain to implement, get use to, and actually use. It would be interesting and maybe a little more realistic...but with a game like this I'd guess the current system is the best system. But it would be interesting.


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  NORTHWIND from PLAY.NET (Mykk)
On  Jan 18, 2002 at 15:04
Subject  Re: Racial Abilities/Teachers/Elders/GMs (1274)
<< Greet (person) >>

I like the concept. I would also want to see a way to get a player's name that wasn't dependent on the other player, ie so I could find out who it is myself. Perhaps just a LOOK, although that isn't realistic. Also maybe a 3rd party method, INTRODUCE? Interesting anyway.


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  CRUSI from PLAY.NET (Pastlife.)
On  Jan 18, 2002 at 23:29
Subject  Re: Racial Abilities/Teachers/Elders/GMs (1275)
I'd still rather see more "racial" bonding rather than bonding via "Guild"...and like a guild, I think each should have it's own full time GM to workon abilities and or magic.

An example would be Prydaens Hand Of Tenemlor Cleric spell. I think it would be interesting if this was given to a Cleric Prydaen elder that at when they reach the skills for it, can request to learn and be taught it. I use this as an example, i'm not saying take the spell away, but perhaps the GM's of the race would create specific magics that can be learned. Any magic using mage should be able to get this, but along with the type of mana it uses, perhaps the name and other slight differences could be distinguished from a WM spell to a Cleric spell...but in the end would have the same effect.

as for the name thing...I think any Graverobber/snert would love this ability. also, can you imagine the required "list"...since I should know my best friend and not have to "greet" them every time I see them. And what if I happen to make friends with everyone I meet...or at least get to know everyone i meet. Imagine the memorie that would take up.

Dark Angel Crusinix


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  RTOON from PLAY.NET
On  Feb 12, 2002 at 01:01
Subject  Learning other languages? (1276)
I know some role-play that they only speak one language and know little common. Or maybe they know both their language as well as common. This might sound crazy to people but maybe one race could "learn" (of course over time) other races languages. Perhaps be taught the language gradually by another person. It would add an interesting look to the world of rpers. I thought of this since most of my characters have different race in their family. It would make it easie to understand each other. Also, it would be an option for the player if they'd want their character to have knowledge of another language. Even though you'd have to have enough lore to learn the other language so it wouldn't be so simple, sort of like learning a spell from a scroll but more permanant.

Anyway that's my idea, it's just a thought. Feel free to state your opinion.


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  JAEBOMDR from PLAY.NET (What did i do now?)
On  Feb 12, 2002 at 10:27
Subject  Re: Learning other languages? (1277)
been suggested many times. some people (most notably the more vocal prydaen players in general) are very opposed to it, but most seem ta like the idea. i'm not sure what the GMs have stated regarding this, but i'm sure someone knows... you might wanna check earlier threads regarding languages, but you'll have alot of reading to do

Jaebom --i wanna speak ilithic, is that too much to ask?!


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  CLENCHG from PLAY.NET (Protected by Copyright Law)
On  Feb 13, 2002 at 17:20
Subject  Breeding True (1278)
I've been thinking about this, so thought I'd ask for the official say so from Cadaya.

As an established part of RP, people will play the sons and daughters of others. Characters that are the daughters and sons of two other characters however rarely look anything like their parents. Skin tones, eye colors, hair colors, scale colors, fur colors, mane colors, all of these things are varied.

With RL humans, you see in most cases the dominant traits of the parents portrayed in the child's features. If this isn't the case, it is a recessive Gene that while not common to the parents, does occur occasionally in the extended family. This is called breeding true.

With IC characters, this isn't the case. Their children don't neccassarily look anything like the parents. They don't breed true, the genes aren't passed on.

Now we both know that is because it is a game. That people choose who their parents are going to be (from an RP standpoint) after they have established grown up characters. However this OOC method leads to an IC curiosity of families looking different.

So the question is, Do the races of DR breed true?

Anyone familiar with the Mystara world of the old D&D times (not AD&D, talking 80's here), would know of the Hollow World expansion and the Beastmen of the Northern polar opening. This was an ancient race preserved there. This race did not breed true, but radically more so, in that you couldn't call it a race. Heights ranged from 3' to 10'. Skin colors were green, white, black, purple, yellow, red, etc. Horns, tusks, placement of bodyhair, all these things would be completely random as though they were rolled up on some chart (which you actually did if you wanted to play one). As I said they were an ancient race but suddenly they started to breed true, and tendencies were found, and the race split into these groups. Hence the non-humans were formed, orcs, goblins, hobgoblins, trolls, kobolds, orges, bugbears.

Now in Elanthia we obviously breed true on some aspects. Height is within the "range" for a race. The ability to grow fur or hair or have scales doesn't change.

But other features don't follow from parent to child, so do Elanthian's breed true?

Hegemonic, heh, it just hit me so I thought I'd bring it up.


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DMYSUS from PLAY.NET
On  Feb 13, 2002 at 18:21
Subject  Re: Breeding True (1279)
I've never thought of this....I've wondered more about ages in the RP'ed families. Usually it seems the parents must of had their RP'ed kid when they were 4 or 5.

For a true RP experience, it would be interesting to have an option of rolling a "child". This character would be able to pick their age, a range between say 3 to 12. No guild will accept them until they've reached 13 years old. Their stats would role lower and the normal starting tdp's would not be available right away...but given slower over their maturing process.

As for breeding true, I know folks who you have to go back to their great or great great grandparents to see some of their traits. Unless you've RP'ed a continuial family line since DR started I don't think you could cover far enough back to discount ANY apperance as a genetic child.


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  BRANKLAR from PLAY.NET
On  Feb 13, 2002 at 18:29
Subject  Re: Breeding True (1280)
I'd love to see a system by which people can be the children of others in the game-mechanical sense. Right now there are zero game mechanics to support this, and those of us who want to RP this kind of thing do so largely through the "act" verb and such.

Things that a "descent" system would bring to the game:

1) This one a ton of people will hate, but no more cross-racial babies. Except in a few rare cases, Elanthian races should not be able to cross-breed. There may be some exceptions in the human-elf-eloth-kaldar area, but no half-s'kra babies. ::shudders::

2) The sharing of family names. I'm still trying to figure out how we're going to work around this when our kids are old enough to be 'real people'.

3) Possible verbs. Similar to the marriage verbs, there are appropriate ways to kiss, hug, etc. your children.

4) Actual pregnancy?

5) This could be dangerous ground, but policy implications like the ability to defend your 'true' relatives as you can your spouse. (Downside: people forming 'families' to facilitate a de facto gang.)

Dealing with physical traits should be easy though, even now. If someone is going to RP your child, you can jointly pick the features of the child-character. We've already decided (sort of on the fly) that our daughter has the same color eyes as my wife. Things like that are easy to handle.

Ruhrik


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  CLENCHG from PLAY.NET (Protected by Copyright Law)
On  Feb 13, 2002 at 18:36
Subject  Re: Breeding True (1281)
Just as an addition to this discussion, if you look at some of the documentation on specific races, it seems to imply they breed true, even though the reality of it isn't the case in IC terms, due to the OOC part of not having parents until you choose to have someone RP them. For instance:

Re: River Elves "Wiry and thin, River Elves have darkened skin and sandy blonde hair. "

Hence River Elves are known for how they look and common features, as we can say about races in RL. This of course assumes it is actually the case and not author bias.

I don't know which I would prefer, races breeding true or not.

Hege


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  BRANKLAR from PLAY.NET
On  Feb 13, 2002 at 18:37
Subject  Re: Breeding True (1282)
>I've never thought of this....I've wondered more about ages in the RP'ed families. Usually it seems the parents must of had their RP'ed kid when they were 4 or 5.

I take the 'soap opera' approach to this. If you've ever tracked a soap opera for a length of time (which requires watching once a month, tops), you'll have noticed that people will have kids who mature frighteningly quickly.

It works like this. They have a baby. For awhile there's a baby, then one day ::poof:: they have a little kid running around. Then maybe a couple years later ::poof:: they have a teenager. Then again, a couple years later ::poof:: new actor and there's an adult. Soap opera generations are very crammed together.

So my plan with my DR children is to try to have them be actual 'people' in a little over a RL year. That only makes them about 4 in DR years, but if we were to wait for the Dwarven age of maturity (which seems to be 30 minimum) we'd be waiting 7+ years. They'll just ::poof:: up to at least adolescence.

Ruhrik


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DR-PORLOCK from PLAY.NET
On  Feb 13, 2002 at 20:20
Subject  Re: Breeding True (1283)
>>I've been thinking about this...

Yeesh.

Hege, do you really sit around thinking about these things? <g>

GM Porlock


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  BRANKLAR from PLAY.NET
On  Feb 13, 2002 at 20:28
Subject  Re: Breeding True (1284)
>Hege, do you really sit around thinking about these things? <g>

He hates his job.

Ruhrik


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  CLENCHG from PLAY.NET (Protected by Copyright Law)
On  Feb 13, 2002 at 20:41
Subject  Re: Breeding True (1285)
I really really hate my job. Except for the internet access. =)

And who doesn't think about erm... breeding?

Actually didn't want to bring it up since no one seems to care, but it came about cause of the tabletop version of DR I'm working on. I'm on the Race/Guild section (having finished skills and combat) and got to the point where I describe what characters look like.

And I thought about it, and you can have infinite diversity in infinite combinations (Vulcan Proverb) when it comes to looks. Then it went over to IC families, then I remembered the Beastmen from Mystara, then I said forget it, I'm posting cause not breeding true would be interesting. =)

Hege


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DR-PORLOCK from PLAY.NET
On  Feb 13, 2002 at 20:45
Subject  Re: Breeding True (1286)
>>it came about cause of the tabletop version of DR I'm working on.

Ahh. I should of known. We going to be able to get a peek at this beast at Simucon?

GM Porlock


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  CLENCHG from PLAY.NET (Protected by Copyright Law)
On  Feb 13, 2002 at 21:00
Subject  Re: Breeding True (1287)
I'll send you what I have done. I'm going to push to finish magic (or at least a little of it) and races/guilds and make up enough equipment to have some playtesting at Vegascon. It will be with premade characters, with equipment already chosen, and a set adventure. So will just be a taste. Am definately planning playtesting by Simucon where folks can create their own characters as well. But it's taking me 6 weeks of steady work per chapter. Needless to say it is rough for one person to compile all this. Thank god I have an editor.

Going to be hitting the Guild boards in the next couple of days and start compiling information on guild abilities. As a lifetime player of a Paladin most of this stuff I understand in concept, but not the intricacies.

Either way, I vote for us not breeding true! <g>

Hege


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  CRUSI from PLAY.NET (Pastlife.)
On  Feb 13, 2002 at 23:07
Subject  Re: Breeding True (1288)
My vote is that DR breeds true (I think, if i read the question right)...but alot of people weren't huged by their parents as kids, so they grow the adoptive attitude, while others were so neglected, that they have adopted the "childlike" attitude...it's all very pychological.

I see each race as like dinosaurs...at one time, they may have been one race...but due to conditions long ago...and separation...that each group eventually evolved into another race.

While a human and elf can have a very loving relationship, their DNA just won't combine to create a half-elf/half-human. and as we see, you are one way or another.

The change between races isn't much...*Humans and chimps there is only a 2% difference in DNA*...but that doesn't mean we can breed with them...and that is how I see it with other races in DR.

Dark Angel Crusinix

"Your genetic make up, tells us everything...it even tells us how happy you can really be"


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  JAEBOMDR from PLAY.NET (What did i do now?)
On  Feb 13, 2002 at 23:48
Subject  Re: Breeding True (1289)
s'kra are too far removed from the rest of the races to even bother concidering the possibility...elves and humans can have offspring quite well (concidering elves generally don't reproduce well even in same-race couples, producing a child at all with a human is good) i don't think halflings or dwarves would reproduce well with others, but that's all really unimportant because that's just a tangent that i didn't wanna get into...what was i gonna say...um...oh yeah!! races not breeding true is kinda silly. some IC cultures wouldn't work well if the races didn't breed true...such as s'kra culture, where your family and clan can tell alot about you...and would likely show up in your features (though only in subtle ways...interclass and interclan marriages are common...it keeps the gene pool large and the s'kra strong). though some features wouldn't breed true...just so that we can allow for the gross errors made when calling someone your child when they look nothing like you...i s'pose you could think of 'em as the gods' little touches....or the milkman's, depending on how much the husband trusts the wife...

Jaebom --i had a point when i started, but i lost it somewhere along the way


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  SAILORPLUTO from PLAY.NET
On  Feb 14, 2002 at 01:29
Subject  Re: Breeding True (1290)
I think you misunderstand the question (unless I do). I don't think Hege is asking about interbreeding, so much as features within a single race...to humans with black hair and green eyes have a child with red hair and brown eyes. I think not breeding true makes things more interesting.

~Daergoth


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  TURNIPKID from PLAY.NET (Drunken Goddess)
On  Feb 14, 2002 at 13:17
Subject  Re: Breeding True (1291)
The situation with the Elothean Houses makes me think that at least Elotheans breed true. Most of the Houses have defining physical characteristics. For example, firey red hair is a sign that a Elothean is of noble blood. Since 90% of the time House membership is hereditary, it makes me think that children do indeed tend to take on their parent's physical characteristics.

~Player of Starsha


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  CLENCHG from PLAY.NET (Protected by Copyright Law)
On  Feb 14, 2002 at 17:56
Subject  Re: Breeding True (1292)
>I think you misunderstand the question (unless I do). I don't think Hege is asking about interbreeding, so much as features within a single race...to humans with black hair and green eyes have a child with red hair and brown eyes. I think not breeding true makes things more interesting.

>~Daergoth

Exactly, I the player of Hege take most of my looks after my mother. It means RL humans breed true, they pass on traits from parent to child, or at least recessive traits that are somewhat common in the families of the parents.

This has nothing to do with crossbreeding Elanthian Races

If you look at how people have their families in DR, you see let us say a human couple, looking very different, and they have someone RP their child that while human could share NONE of their characteristics from Hair Color, Eye color, to skin tone. Now we can't see with enough detail in our text based format to say the person has his mothers nose, or his fathers chin, but from what we do know about we as Elanthians do not breed true.

Hege


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  BRANKLAR from PLAY.NET
On  Feb 14, 2002 at 18:09
Subject  Re: Breeding True (1293)
I understood what Hege was talking about. My point was, for people to really "breed true" in the IG sense, there'd have to be a "breeding system". As it is now, the game doesn't recognize anyone as blood relatives. I simply took the opportunity to bring up some of the other issues that a breeding system could deal with, like racial cross-breeding.

Ruhrik


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  CLENCHG from PLAY.NET (Protected by Copyright Law)
On  Feb 14, 2002 at 18:31
Subject  Re: Breeding True (1294)
Good suggestions they were too. =)

Hegemonic "I built my ego from Legos" Blessedbe


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  JAEBOMDR from PLAY.NET (What did i do now?)
On  Feb 15, 2002 at 02:29
Subject  Re: Breeding True (1295)
LEGO ROCKS!!

Jaebom --a moment of nostalgic randomness, don't bother responding


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  BREDEMEYERS from PLAY.NET
On  Feb 16, 2002 at 20:35
Subject  Re: Breeding True (1296)
When I RP the children of my characters (a couple of them have kids, and I play them, too) they did "breed true" to their parentage. For example, My Elven character was married to a man with blue eyes, and their twins (it runs in the family, she's half Wind Elf) Have their mother's race, curly black hair and fair skin, but their father's blue eyes. The same with my other character. With those two, I even RP the similar dimples in their left cheek.

Just my little babble.


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  CLENCHG from PLAY.NET (Protected by Copyright Law)
On  Feb 16, 2002 at 22:32
Subject  Re: Breeding True (1297)
>When I RP the children of my characters (a couple of them have kids, and I play them, too) they did "breed true" to their parentage. For example, My Elven character was married to a man with blue eyes, and their twins (it runs in the family, she's half Wind Elf) Have their mother's race, curly black hair and fair skin, but their father's blue eyes. The same with my other character. With those two, I even RP the similar dimples in their left cheek.

That's pretty cool. I always let the character manager pick my features.


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  JAEBOMDR from PLAY.NET (What did i do now?)
On  Feb 18, 2002 at 02:40
Subject  Re: Breeding True (1298)
i invariably go with violet eyes...other than that, if i'm in the character manager, i just pick what suits my mood...though it's hard to get throw-away characters these days, and i've only got the one character slot, so i'm not in there very often

Jaebom --i still with i'd have gone with only violet eyes for jaebom...i don' like the crystal one he has :(


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  RALTIR from PLAY.NET (Raltir)
On  Feb 19, 2002 at 15:09
Subject  My thoughts on Language learning system... (1299)
I don't like the xxx ranks of scholarship per language idea. If it were implemented everyone would get a language whether or not their RP actually required it, because there would be no reason not to once you naturally aquired the skill. Also, this would severly limit the RP options for younger characters.

My suggestion is that each language carry a TDP cost. The cost would be fairly hefty, but would decrease with higher scholarship skill, and be based on how different the langauge is from your own langauge. Each language would be put on a scale and so that the differences could be better estimated for cost. For example it could go something like this:

-1 Halfling
-3 Elothean
-4 Elf
-7 Human
-8 Rakash*
-9 Gnome/Kaldar
-11 Dwarf
-12 Gor'Tog
-18 Prydaen
-19 S'kra Mur
-20 Rakash*

*Other races learn Rakash as if it were 20, but Rakash learn other races from whichever is closer (8 or 20).

The difference between the race you are and the language you are learning would be a variable in the TDP cost. I could also see races with Intelligence Wisdom and Charisma bonuses possibly having a slight bonus in this cost, too.

In addition, each guild would have a modifier to the cost. The cheapest would be Bards, followed approximately in this order: Trader, Empath, Moon Mage, Cleric, Thief, Commoner, Paladin, War Mage, Ranger, Barbarian. The differences in modifiers wouldn't be much on some parts of the scale, but be large on other parts. There would probably need to be high end and low end caps for TDP cost.

This is all my opinion. Fare well in all your greatest convictions, that you may succeed easily in all you attempt.

~Raltir Koldoirn
  Elven Ranger


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  GONIFTHEEF from PLAY.NET (Coin Redistribution Specialist)
On  Feb 19, 2002 at 23:28
Subject  Re: My thoughts on Language learning system... (1300)
Whereas I DO support the "learn other languages at XXX scholarship"--I agree that it should not be an automatic thing. I don't think it should be a TDP cost though. Rather, I would prefer to see an in-game quest to acquire this knowledge. One that would not be guild-specific, nor require the killing of critters. An actual--LORE quest.

Therefore--if you had IC reasons you wouldn't want to know a certain language--you wouldn't have to do the quest. It would be optional.

               -schvartz-


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  YIMMY from PLAY.NET (The Happy Wanderer)
On  Feb 20, 2002 at 12:28
Subject  Re: My thoughts on Language learning system... (1301)
<<I would prefer to see an in-game quest to acquire this knowledge. One that would not be guild-specific, nor require the killing of critters. An actual--LORE quest.>>

Wow... an actual use for all that Lore..... this is a great idea on this... so if you don't care to spend the time or money to learn another language then don't...

Like this alot...


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  DANFORDS2 from PLAY.NET (Opieus Tuer)
On  Feb 22, 2002 at 19:01
Subject  Re: My thoughts on Language learning system... (1302)
<<so if you don't care to spend the time or money to learn another language then don't...>>

Why would it cost money to learn a language? Go up to someone and ask if they could help you out a little, and I'm sure someone has written a book about it somewhere. Time, that goes along with Raltir's idea. Use TDP's to learn a language. It makes since. There might be a requirement of scholarship to learn a language, but it wouldn't be that high as all it takes is reading for a long period of time.

Incanter Opieus Tuer ~ Human Warrior Mage


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  JAEBOMDR from PLAY.NET (What did i do now?)
On  Feb 21, 2002 at 03:42
Subject  Re: Lack of Gor Tog items (1303)
humans and elves produce either humans or elves as children, not elotheans. lanival was an exception...he was a half-elf...no, not a friggin elothean...he was human...but he was elven at the same time...a bit of both...an oddity...his (twin?) sister shared this characeristic

Jaebom --i dunno why i bothered responding, but i did


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  KERNSK from PLAY.NET (Gyren)
On  Feb 22, 2002 at 18:22
Subject  Re: Lack of Gor Tog items (1304)
>>humans and elves produce either humans or elves as children, not elotheans. lanival was an exception...he was a half-elf...no, not a friggin elothean...he was human...but he was elven at the same time...a bit of both...an oddity...his (twin?) sister shared this characeristic

Naw, he was maybe the first elothean, but humans and elves do produce half-elves.. which are actually elotheans. Thank you.

-Gyren, Half-elven and Elothean, depending on who you ask.. but they are the same thing ;)


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  TURNIPKID from PLAY.NET (Drunken Goddess)
On  Feb 22, 2002 at 22:38
Subject  Re: Lack of Gor Tog items (1306)
>>Naw, he was maybe the first elothean, but humans and elves do produce half-elves.. which are actually elotheans. Thank you.

::sigh:: Don't know why I bother even responding, but you need to refresh on your history. Lanival was around a LONG time after the first Elotheans are recorded in history. And when humans and elves reproduce they create either a human or an elf (dependant on the race of the mother if I think). Lanival was Elven biologically, but considered Human in spirit if I remember my history correctly (and I'm too tierd to actually check this for cure). He most certainly wasn't Elothean by any means.

~Starsha


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  CRUSI from PLAY.NET (Pastlife.)
On  Feb 22, 2002 at 22:40
Subject  Re: Lack of Gor Tog items (1307)
>>Naw, he was maybe the first elothean, but humans and elves do produce half-elves.. which are actually elotheans. Thank you.

I'm curious as to where you get this information. We either named Elanthia for Elotheans or Elotheans for Elanthia...either way...as far as I could tell, Elotheans pre-date humans and elves.

Dark Angel Crusinix

"The study of the past is the map of the future"


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  TURNIPKID from PLAY.NET (Drunken Goddess)
On  Feb 22, 2002 at 23:10
Subject  Re: Lack of Gor Tog items (1308)
>>I'm curious as to where you get this information. We either named Elanthia for Elotheans or Elotheans for Elanthia...either way...as far as I could tell, Elotheans pre-date humans and elves.

Once again, too tierd to pull up all my sources of info, but no where has it ever been implied that Elotheans were Willed into being before Elves and Humans, or that Elanthia was named after them. In fact if Cadaya's timeline is completely chronological, then they definetely came afterwards. And on a totally OOC standpoint, if Elotheans really are Elven/Human hybrids that evolved into a seperate race over time, then they kinda HAD to come after Elves and Humans (otherwise the theory wouldn't hold water at all, and OOC I like the fact the theory exists <g>). And Starsha firmly believes that Elotheans were the last race created, because the gods saw the other races to be so imperfect ;-)

~Player of Starsha


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  CRUSI from PLAY.NET (Pastlife.)
On  Feb 22, 2002 at 23:24
Subject  Re: Lack of Gor Tog items (1309)
>>Once again, too tierd to pull up all my sources of info, but no where has it ever been implied that Elotheans were Willed into being before Elves and Humans, or that Elanthia was named after them.

When you're not too tired, please pull up all your sources. Namely because I've always been under the assumption that Elotheans were the first race, and that's how elanthia got it's name. But, this is just an assumption of mine...but this is usually how, many native people get their names, they are based on the "rock" they are found on. Usually, not all the time.

Dark Angel Crusinix


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  BARBAROUS from PLAY.NET (Death By Tog)
On  Feb 23, 2002 at 03:04
Subject  Re: Lack of Gor Tog items (1310)
According to every IG book I've ever read except one, Elves and Dwarves were the first two races created, Elves first, then Dwarves, or vice versa according to the Dwarves. The one exception (and the only one that I remember the name of) is Aunt Olma's Tog Story, which says "Gor'Tog is old. Not you and me Gor'Togs, but Gor'Tog, the people. Not as old as Elf, but Gor'Tog was here when Dwarf came, when S'kra Mur came."

~B, the (semi-)scholarly Tog


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  TURNIPKID from PLAY.NET (Drunken Goddess)
On  Feb 23, 2002 at 09:56
Subject  1st race? (1311)
>>Namely because I've always been under the assumption that Elotheans were the first race, and that's how elanthia got it's
 name. But, this is just an assumption of mine...but this is usually how, many native people get their names, they are based on the "rock" they are found on.

Good reasoning, but Elanthia is the name of the whole planet, not just the name of the one part of the planet that Elotheans are found on. Also there is a good possibility that the world of GSIII and the world of DragonRealms are the same world with GSIII as the older world (it has 4 moons from what I understand). There are no Elotheans in GSIII and the place is still called Elanthia.

Its also always been implied that Elves, Dwarves and Humans were the first races, all created about the same time. This is also supported by Cadaya's offical timeline, which I assume is in chronological order based on myth and legend. Don't forget that the space between those N/A can be thousands to millions of years old. It is also claimed that Elves "preferred the time where there were no Humans" while the Elotheans mearly "claim there was a time where there were no Humans" Implying that the Elves remember while the Elotheans just surmise. Elves and Dwarves also have the longest oral history, gathering into clans and whatnot and living off of the lands before trying to permanent dwellings. Elotheans seem to have sprung fully formed from absolutely nowhere with very little evolution. This is the basis for the Will theory, that the Elotheans didn't need to spend any time evolving or creating a society or gathering into seperate clans. They came as a fully formed, civilized thought from the gods and haven't changed one iota since.

Then there is the number one reason that Elotheans aren't suposedly the 1st race created, they don't proclaim it from the mountaintops. They're a pretty snobby race, and if they were supposedly the first form of life on Elanthia you bet the whole realms would have that built into their lore. There would be tales of the Elotheans bestowing their god given wisdom and perfection to the races that came after them. It would also be the *THE* key argument against the Half and Half Theory. And Cadaya has already said that the Half and Half Theory was put into the game to be something that is not just thrown to the side. In fact the sudden apperance of the Elotheans in Elanthia post Elf and Human can also be supported by the Half and Half Theory.

According to the IC books and Cadaya's timeline this the recognized series of races:

~The First Beings were created. While all creatures supposedly came from the first beings, Humans (and maybe Halflings and Gor'Togs) supposedly evolved from the 1st beings without godly intervention.

~The Two were born (From the 1st beings, perhaps with godly intervention) at the same time Kertigen takes a direct hand into creating the 1st Dwarf

~Sometime after that Humans start running amok

~World Dragon runs around destroying things (it is interesting to note that the Rakash claim to date back to when Grazhir was intact making them at least as old as Humans)

~Elotheans were Willed into being by the gods.

~S'kra Mur were formed in order to be a curse to mortal creatures by Ushnish. Hav'roth and Peri'el see this and foil Ushnish by forming the S'kra into a true race.

~The Gor'Togs become recognized as a race, but they very well may have existed long before then.

I have no idea where the Albarian races or the Pyrdaens fall on this timeline.

~Starsha and player of


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  BARBAROUS from PLAY.NET (Death By Tog)
On  Feb 23, 2002 at 15:24
Subject  Re: 1st race? (1312)
>>The Gor'Togs become recognized as a race, but they very well may have existed long before then.

::points at the book Aunt Olma's Tog Story::

It's short, but it's a good read. <g>

~B


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  LEJES from PLAY.NET (Death Incarnate)
On  Feb 24, 2002 at 08:56
Subject  Re: 1st race? (1313)
Also, it's good to note that Rakash exist (in their primitive form) in GemStone III. They are always in moonskin however, and because they cannot communicate with non-Rakash, they are a monster race (defending their home). The hunters refer to them as "Shan". They have their own clerics and warriors... quite interesting.

And yes, GemStone III *is* the past Elanthia. So many things from GS3 are relevant here. Which means that the In-Game theory of Elotheans being half-elves is either incorrect... or they experienced genetic deviations from breeding with one another. Half-Elves were said to be sterile in GS3 Elanthia. They weren't odd-looking like Elotheans, but they were genetic "mules". Perhaps over time they gained the ability to breed and their off-spring were born looking like deformed, balding aliens (Elotheans). However, their deformities seem to be only physical and their mental abilities seemed to be more advanced than that of their parents. And when there were enough of them, their traits became standard and were no longer deformities or deviations from the norm.

It's also possible they're not half-elven at all.

Gor'Togs are descended from Trolls.

Halflings and Gnomes date back to the GS period as well.

Kalders were Giantmen in the GS3 world.

Prydaens and S'kra Mur seem to be the youngest races.

- Darien the Wolf


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  JAEBOMDR from PLAY.NET (What did i do now?)
On  Feb 24, 2002 at 23:20
Subject  Re: 1st race? (1314)
togs existed before the s'kra enslaved them, but they were little better than --but definitely a step above-- trolls (a bit bigger maybe, a bit stronger, a bit smarter) the s'kra had an active role in their development into what they are today, which would be the very tall, very strong, and maybe not the smartest out there, certainly far superior to any troll in that respect. how long the gor'togs were around we aren't sure. i doubt much culture survives from before their enslavement, and other races wouldn't have recorded such things because before the s'kra discovered them they were either not known or they were viewed only as troll-kin to be killed for profit and skill

Jaebom --i've read all the s'kra and tog books i could get my hands on...some several times


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  BARBAROUS from PLAY.NET (Death By Tog)
On  Feb 25, 2002 at 00:54
Subject  Re: 1st race? (1316)
>>Gor'Togs are descended from Trolls.

Correction: certain S'Kra Mur *believe* Gor'Togs are descended from trolls, but what do they know? They actually were created as monsters. ;P No harm, no foul though.

>>Kalders were Giantmen in the GS3 world.

I could be completely wrong, but aren't GS3's giantmen quite a bit bigger than Kaldar?

>>togs existed before the s'kra enslaved them, but they were little better than --but definitely a step above-- trolls (a bit bigger maybe, a bit stronger, a bit smarter) the s'kra had an active role in their development into what they are today, which would be the very tall, very strong, and maybe not the smartest out there, certainly far superior to any troll in that respect.

What proof is there that Gor'Togs are related to trolls at all? I don't consider one extremely biased and racist S'Kra Mur author proof. Anyway, there's little to no way to tell what Gor'Togs were like before the S'Kra enslaved them. Who knows, maybe Togs were smarter and/or stronger before their enslavement. The S'Kra certainly wouldn't tell anyone that though (they're almost as prideful as Prydaens, in general of course ;) and there would be a definite advantage to breeding out intelligence (see: former laws against slaves learning to read and write IRL).

~B


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  SHURIN from PLAY.NET
On  Feb 25, 2002 at 05:31
Subject  Re: 1st race? (1317)
>Also, it's good to note that Rakash exist (in their primitive form) in GemStone III. They are always in moonskin however, and because they cannot communicate with non-Rakash, they are a monster race (defending their home). The hunters refer to them as "Shan". They have their own clerics and warriors... quite interesting.

That makes sense. Last I checked GSIII still had all four moons, although they're diffrently named. Us Rakash lost our permanent moonskins when the silver/white moon Grazhir went boom (damn that world dragon!).

But monster race..? Bah, monsters is only a half truth... For example don't eat halflings, we make them cook tarts for us. Hell, if there's anything to be scared of it's that damn clown on the amusement pier... and mimes, yeah...

...I'm going back to bed.

-Shurin the lost mage, who thinks death spirits have spiffy threads when they're not trying to claw his head off.


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  YIMMY from PLAY.NET (The Happy Wanderer)
On  Feb 25, 2002 at 15:31
Subject  BZZZZZZZZ (1319)
SPLAT!

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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  JAEBOMDR from PLAY.NET (What did i do now?)
On  Feb 25, 2002 at 20:05
Subject  Re: 1st race? (1320)
<I don't consider one extremely biased and racist S'Kra Mur author proof.>

that was uncalled for. if ya think the togs came from somewhere else, gimme some evidence, or at least a theory. if yours is better, i'll start using that. as for breeding the intelligence out of togs, i don't see how the people working for you not knowing how to read your blueprints would be advantageous at all. sure there would have been foremen keeping the work moving, but the tog's still gotta know how to put the thing together or the togs wouldn't be nearly efficient enough to warant the safety hazard involved in keeping something that much bigger and stronger (and presumably more ill-tempered due to living conditions) around

Jaebom --i am NOT racist, thank you very much


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  NORT from PLAY.NET
On  Feb 25, 2002 at 20:44
Subject  Re: 1st race? (1321)
We were formed, as the Dwarves were, by Kertigen from a tree that the Dwarves used as shade while passing through the desert. This would explain the good feelings the two races have towards each other. This is from...a book about the Dwarven race, Im not sure what one, I believe it is in the dwarven fort on the way to Muspar'i. Which is right, the S'kra or the Dwarves? Who knows. Untill us Togs get some more concrete songs/legends/books, we have to go on what other races think. My Toggish Epic is actually based on those two legends of toggish creation. Come to the next Arthe Dale concert, Ill see if I can sing it then maybe.

Drakkenn Rarenth, Knight of Elanthia and Toggish Epicist


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Category  Eleven Races (28)
Topic  The Eleven (12)
By  BARBAROUS from PLAY.NET (Death By Tog)
On  Feb 26, 2002 at 00:36
Subject  Re: 1st race? (1322)